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The ultimate midi controller

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11080 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:19 pm

pauloegidio wrote:a) I wrote it. In fact, 5 programs, 2 computers:
computer 1
cubase
2 dlls inside cubase.
1 program for controlling the lcd under the encoders
1 program for rout everything, midi from cubase and tcp/ip client
computer 2
1 program for controlling the display screen and also being the tcp/ip server, and also receive the midi from bcr 2000


So I take it that one PC is dedicated for the touchscreen and the rotary LCD thing, but is running via TCP/IP loopback devices to actually work with Cubase.


pauloegidio wrote:b) You get an bcr 2000, open it, VERY CAREFULLY remove one of the encoders with an iron solder, attach 3 small electric wires to it and re-sold them at bcr2000. Repeat for 21 more encoders.
Buy a glass panel, drill 22 holes in it, attach the encoders on the glass panel and then put the glass over an lcd screen. This is the easy part.
After that, you spent 6 months trying to make all this things work together while maintaining your sanity. This is the hard part. Don't worry of you start drooling and baubling a lot. This is part of the process. You REALLY have to worry if you wake up naked at the wolf's den in the zoo and don't remember a thing.


And I thought you still had a fully working BCR on screen. Hm... sounds like a load of fun [/sarcasm] and the "open" BCR is behind the touchscreen LCD.

But what about the software? Is that a graphical interface thing or something? Or does somebody need to know how to code things?


pauloegidio wrote:c) we used one from magic touch.


Isn't that actually 2 if I count in the "lemour" type LCD and the BCR modification? Unless that WAS a Lemour.

pauloegidio wrote:Panning and volume: It seems to me that you didnt watch the entire movie :-) (I don't blame you: it's boring)
There's a pan screen and the volume is already controlled by the faders on the 01v96. 01v96 have a penning encoder, but it controls only the current selected channel. Using the touch screen, you can set the pan very quickly at anyone of the 16 channels. The tricky part is to have the 01v96 and the touch screen ALWAYS in sync, so the channels names are correct all the time. Cubase already have an 01v96 midi controller "driver" builtin.


But... do I actually NEED the 01v96, or can this be done with the trekkie touchscreen thing?

pauloegidio wrote:Thanks for you interest.


I actually wanted to ask: where do I get that thing for practical use? And what does someone need? Will there be manuals for DIY controllers, etc?

pauloegidio wrote:However, please notice that I don't plan to produce more of this. I am afraid of waking up at the zoo.


Welcome to the jungle. :lol:
funkadil
KVRAF
 
2036 posts since 20 Jul, 2004

Postby funkadil; Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:54 pm

Wow, that has got to be the most impressive home fashioned controller setup I have ever seen.
Do not lick the fablanky
A3ntar
KVRAF
 
2000 posts since 6 Sep, 2005

Postby A3ntar; Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:28 pm

pauloegidio wrote:A touch screen controlling 01v96, and real hardware knobs over a lcd screen.

Want to know more?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKSXPsLJ6f8

Pictures:
Main Panel: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1213/t1by1.jpg
Output Bus Window: http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4002/t2em1.jpg
Input Bus Window: http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/91/t3uw6.jpg
Inserts Window: http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2715/t4xf8.jpg
Sends Window: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1611/t5mh9.jpg
Pan Window: http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9303/t6sw1.jpg
Liquid Mix Compressors Window: http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5783/t8hu4.jpg
Liquid Mix EQ's Window: http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7249/t7hr3.jpg

I would like to thank Steinberg for the SDK

Paulo

P.S. I'm not a vendor, nor I'm trying to sell this stuff.


Very good paulo, I can appreciate the efforts behind this...
User avatar
zerocrossing
KVRAF
 
7097 posts since 26 Jun, 2006, from San Francisco Bay Area

Postby zerocrossing; Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:58 pm

I would buy a product like this but it would have to be able to reconfigure the main scanners and integrate with the transporter. Make it so!
Zerocrossing Media
http://www.zerocrossing.net
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
pauloegidio
KVRer
 
19 posts since 31 May, 2008, from sao paulo brazil

Postby pauloegidio; Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:00 pm

Well, you definitely know how to ask the difficult questions :-)

I will assume that you have some kind of computer programming knowledge, ok?
If this are too technical, just ignore it :-)

Compyfox wrote:So I take it that one PC is dedicated for the touchscreen and the rotary LCD thing, but is running via TCP/IP loopback devices to actually work with Cubase.


A little more complicated than that. The dlls comunicate with cubase via an Midi controller sdk (not available for download), which steinberg kindly gave me.

Thos dlls are loaded by cubase; they appear at the devices menu. they comunicate by using wm_copydata to the router program. The router program is a tcp client (I wrote it that way) so that it cam send messages to the 2nd computer and also comunicates by wm_copydata to the program that controls the lcd screen under the bcr encoders. BTW, THAT lcd IS NOT a touch screen. The only touch screen is the "Startrek Mixer". If you look at the video, you can see me touching the screen. It's too dark to see, but there are 22 REAL hardware buttons. We modified an keyboard (did a keyboard hack - there are several places on the net explaning how to do that). Those buttons are received by the startrek mixer program on the 2nd computer.

Again, everything is routed to the router program, so it can deliver the messages to the appropriate places.

The most difficult part was getting the messages around. It is a lot of programming. After all, I have
hardware:
bcr 2000
01v96

first computer:
cubase
dll 1
dll 2
generic midi controller (to receive the touchscreen software "buttons" at the right of the touchscreen)
A router program
a program to control the screen under the bcr 2000 enconders

on the second computer:
touchscreen
the same program does 4 things
1) create the touchscreen interface
2) a program to receive and send midi data to the bcr 2000
3) receive keyboard (hacked) data from the buttons of the keyboard hack.
4) a tcp/ip server - to comunicate with the other computer


Particularly, the implementation of the driver of the 01v96 does not permit to jump directly to a channel, instead, you can do a bank + (8 channels) or bank - (8 channels). You can see and hear the controls at the 01v96 "jumping" around when I switch channels.

And I thought you still had a fully working BCR on screen. Hm... sounds like a load of fun [/sarcasm] and the "open" BCR is behind the touchscreen LCD.

But what about the software? Is that a graphical interface thing or something? Or does somebody need to know how to code things?


YEP! That's right. We basically removed the cover from the bcr 2000 so that we could use the encoders and buttons at the top.
In fact, those buttons at the top are not showing on the video. We use then to automatize our "set audition point - set punchin point - do a take - delete wrong take - do it all again" process. It gives a nice workflow, mainly when we are recording vocal takes.

It's just a normal scrren with buttons. I just hid the mouse pointer. The touch screen acts just like a mouse. You touch the screen, it's like a click of the mouse.

Again, I did all the software. That screen is part of one of the programs that run on the first computer (the other is the router). So you have to know how to code things. In fact, you'll have to have a fair amount of computer programming knowledge.

Altough the user interface programs could be written in any language, the dlls were written in C++ (steinberg dsk only works that way) and the other programs were written in delphi.

I also had to do a low level keyboard driver to get the hacked keyboard working.

Listen to me: I am drooling and baubling again :-)
Need to go back to make music!

pauloegidio wrote:c) we used one from magic touch.


Isn't that actually 2 if I count in the "lemour" type LCD and the BCR modification? Unless that WAS a Lemour.


No, that screen it's just a normal lcd screen, no touch.

But... do I actually NEED the 01v96, or can this be done with the trekkie touchscreen thing?


The software was made exactly to this configuration. It is a very customized setup. Without the 01v96, most things won't work.

I actually wanted to ask: where do I get that thing for practical use? And what does someone need? Will there be manuals for DIY controllers, etc?


I am glad for the questions, but even if you have all the hardware, the modification needed on the bcr 2000 and the computers involved are terribly complicated. You'll have to be a professional programmer.

And again, the cost of producing another will be proibitive.
It will be more cheaper to buy an entire array of midi controllers from mackie or novation. That's why I do not have plans to sell, lease or produce another.

That thing just started because I bought an bcr 2000 an that damn thing sit on my desk untouched for 6 months. It was impossible to use that on a plugin, since we work on several plugins and those buttons change. So I tought: it would be really nice if there was an lcd screen UNDER the buttons so we could know what we are changing.

But I did not answer your question: a) For pratical, quickly: You don't. b) all the hardware listed above and of course all the software. c) Are you kidding? :-)

Of course, if you want to do that, I can help you modify an bcr 2000, giving the things we did wrong, but please don't start unless you're a damn good programmer.

And it'll be a 6 month work, at the least.

Thanks again for your comments.

Paulo
pauloegidio
KVRer
 
19 posts since 31 May, 2008, from sao paulo brazil

Postby pauloegidio; Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:05 pm

zerocrossing wrote:I would buy a product like this but it would have to be able to reconfigure the main scanners and integrate with the transporter. Make it so!


Sure, Captain but we'll have to reconfigure the entire transport array due to the anti-proton shell that created an bubble of anti-time.
Alas, maybe we We can modify the deflector dish instead. Yeah, that will do. It will take about 5 minutes. (if the episode is at the end) or
it will take 3 months (if the episode is at the beginnig, so that thy will be forced to descned to the planet/base/moon)

:-)

Paulo
Compyfox
KVRAF
 
11080 posts since 18 Oct, 2003, from Berlin, Germany

Postby Compyfox; Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:09 pm

SInce I'm not a programmer, I guess that's out of the question. But it's interesting to see that Steinberg actually offered "tunneling drivers" for MIDI over LAN. Reminds me of their VSTstack thing, and of course the M-LAN Technology for Yamaha.

Guess if I want such a setup, I need to get a Lemour and a coder in the process. Soldering is no problem, but the rest definitely is. I just wish the Lemour wouldn't be as expensive and actually "better" customizable. The GUI is just plain ugly for that thing. Or they could release a 2-point touchscreen, not an unlimited one. That'd be enough for me already.


Still a cool idea though and congrats that you pulled it off.


In terms of "touching buttons on the normal LCD screen" though, I didn't see any of them...
siriusbliss
KVRAF
 
2363 posts since 5 Dec, 2005, from Bay Area, USA

Postby siriusbliss; Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:11 pm

Very impressive - should probably just be licensed to Yamabase for their next generation mixers running under Windows7 :)

If it was setup for Samplitude, I'd be REALLY stoked.

Good work!

Greg
Don't ask me, I just play here.
pauloegidio
KVRer
 
19 posts since 31 May, 2008, from sao paulo brazil

Postby pauloegidio; Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:12 am

Compyfox wrote:
In terms of "touching buttons on the normal LCD screen" though, I didn't see any of them...


At the movie, when I was using the sonnox equalizer, I turned a section on by pressing a button at the bottom of the screen, for example.

Paulo
teuron
KVRist
 
49 posts since 16 Feb, 2009

Postby teuron; Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:57 pm

larsby wrote:both is "The ultimate midi controller" as per the subject


um yeah....
its like comparing the olympics to the special olimpics
pauloegidio
KVRer
 
19 posts since 31 May, 2008, from sao paulo brazil

Postby pauloegidio; Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:32 am

Hi...
Several people asked me to put a price on it

The bad news: if I had to build ONE, it would be at least a grand.
The good news: If I had to built 5 I think that I could build them for around $500 (plus shipping). If I had to built 10, $350.

Note 1: I will require an bcr2000. It would be best if you send me one. Here, in Brazil, it costs US$300. There it should cost half of that price.
Note 2: The plugin will be something transparent, intended to be put over an 15 inch lcd screen. This screen should be one of the monitors within the computer that runs cubase/nuendo.

And please bear in mind that the touch screen software will be included with the package, even if you don't use it. To use this, you will need a second computer.

At this moment, this will work only with cubase and probably nuendo.
However, I think it would not be difficult to port it to another daw platform. Again, it depends on how many people will need it.

Please let me know who is interested, and also keep in mind that I am opened to suggestions.

Paulo
Dragon Studio
Sao Paulo
Brazil
Agreed
KVRian
 
1137 posts since 2 Mar, 2009, from Crossett, Arkansas, USA

Postby Agreed; Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

So what's the ultimate midi floor controller, then?

I've been checking out the Roland lately, but if there's one with touch-sensitive LCD screens, I'll start playing barefoot.
lhm1138
KVRist
 
68 posts since 15 Sep, 2007

Postby lhm1138; Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:44 pm

This is really brilliant! If you could make these and sell them at under $1,000, you'd have a hit. This totally bridges the gap between the tactile feedback of dedicated hardware and software interaction. I've considered a matrix style LCD knob box, but never thought it would be feasible to put the knobs directly on the LCD screen. With a good editor and an online library for users to post templates....exciting!
z-neo
KVRer
 
1 post since 7 Jul, 2006

Postby z-neo; Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:49 am

Hi Paulo,

just wanted to tell you that your LCD-knob-box is simply awesome!!!! :love: :love: :love: Don't give a §"$% about some of the responses that have been kind of respectless, you managed to build sth really outstanding and unique :clap: :clap: :clap: Man go on with this before any big company is faster.. Think you will find 10 ppl+ really easiely, probably much more :)

But I wasn't able to figure out if you also need a 2nd PC if you only want to use the LCD-knob-box? Could be really nice to run it on the same PC like the sequencer. And the other question is about how you customize the GUI from the plugs to make the virtual knobs fit to the real knobs? Is there any 'easy' way?

I think there are many ppl out there who want to handle plugs in a direct way in connection with more than just an optical feedback like a L.E.D. ring around the knob. Means your solution could change the way how ppl could work with virtual gear in the future. Wanted sth like this for years :love: So keep up the good work, I wish you good luck. And pls post an update if you still want to build more and you haven't been waking up in da zoo yet :D

Respect and kind regards:

Z-NEO
pauloegidio
KVRer
 
19 posts since 31 May, 2008, from sao paulo brazil

Postby pauloegidio; Mon May 04, 2009 7:53 am

Thanks, Z-neo.
I just want to say that I have been busy with this project.

Let's just say that it will be produced, and I estimate the first auction at ebay for the 3rd quarter of 2009.

We are trying to keep the price under $500.

Best regards,
Paulo
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