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hakey
KVRAF
 
5150 posts since 25 Feb, 2008, from Babylon an ting

Postby hakey; Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:02 am Patch Contest # 3

I can't think of a snappy title for this contest - the best I can do is "Playable/Expressive Instruments".

In this case "Instruments" just means patches designed to be played in the ordinary musical sense i.e. patches that you can play a tune on. The patches in the factory banks 'Basics', 'Leaders', 'Fillers', 'Pianoids', 'Orgones' would all fit the bill here, whereas 'Noises', 'Perckers' and 'Lupins' wouldn't.

"Playable/Expressive" means that these patches should be designed with live use in mind and that they should ideally make good/sensitive/well-judged use of the mod and pitch wheels, aftertouch and velocity tracking for the purpose of musical expression. I guess "Musicality" could be another watch word here.

The patches can be monophonic or poly, basses, leads, pads, acoustic, electronic etc. any patch type so long as they are conventionally musical.

There is one minor restriction: for this contest there should be no use of the XY pad.

Again, you're allowed to submit two patches if you wish.

So in brief:

  • Design an instrument type patch with playability and expressiveness in mind.
  • Patches should ideally make use of the mod and pitch wheels, aftertouch and velocity in a musical way so as to allow expressive playing.
  • Patches should have keytracking mapped to pitch in the conventional way (western equal temperament)- i.e. it should be possible to play a tune with them.
  • Patches can be mono/poly, bass, lead, keys etc. any of the basic pitched instrument type.
  • Patches should not make use of the XY pads

---

And now here's some RULES! :x :P :hihi:
  • No voting for your own patch!
  • Everyone who submits a patch should also vote in the contest.


---

The date for submissions will be Midnight Sunday 6th September - which gives everyone three weeks, rather than the two we've allowed for previous contests.

bmrzycki has once again kindly offered to accept submissions, so PM a link to your patch(es) to him.
Last edited by hakey on Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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hakey
KVRAF
 
5150 posts since 25 Feb, 2008, from Babylon an ting

Postby hakey; Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:47 am

Michael Kastrup has very kindly written up some tips about creating a playable synth patch. You can read all about it on his blog:

http://xsynth.blogspot.com/
sinzero
KVRian
 
505 posts since 13 Feb, 2009

Postby sinzero; Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:50 am

i didn't know MK had a blog 8)

nice job on the tute MK...thx!

looking fwd to the other parts
mkastrup
KVRian
 
1101 posts since 4 Aug, 2004, from Copenhagen, Denmark

Postby mkastrup; Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:19 am

I've added a new tutorial about using Velocity to my blog:

http://xsynth.blogspot.com/

/Michael
www.xsynth.com - Sound Synthesis with Vintage flavour
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hakey
KVRAF
 
5150 posts since 25 Feb, 2008, from Babylon an ting

Postby hakey; Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:36 am

mkastrup wrote:I've added a new tutorial about using Velocity to my blog:

http://xsynth.blogspot.com/

/Michael

Great stuff Michael :tu:

I'd be interested to hear how you - or any of the other pros - go about EQing. I know part of the answer is just 'experiment with different settings until you get a sound that you like' - but still there must be some systematic-type processes that can be applied?

An example (I read about on KVR), a method for identifying harsh frequencies: In Zebra's EQ select one of the mid gains (the ones that arelabelled 2 and 3) and with a right-click and upward movement set Q to maximum (thus selecting a very narrow band to be affected), left-click>up to set Gain to maximum - now slowly sweep the band through the frequencies whilst playing a note; the harsh frequencies should 'jump out'. Attenuate any harsh frequencies with suitable gain reduction at a more moderate Q.

The other (fairly obvious) methodology I use is just plain A/Bing against another patch or sound that has something like the timbrel qualities that I'm after.

Any other EQing tips?
mkastrup
KVRian
 
1101 posts since 4 Aug, 2004, from Copenhagen, Denmark

Postby mkastrup; Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:06 am

Using the filter sweep trick you mention is the proper way to go but besides that i dont have much to say about EQ'ing other than to get air in a patch you shouldnt yank the filter wide open but take it almost to the reference spot you like and then have EQ take it the last step. This is to avoid filter breaking which is the point where the filter starts to sound harsh.

Besides that i often use the EQ as a brickwall stopping high harmonics. Very high and low harmonics are those that kills the overall volume of a patch and can be the reason why your mix cant get enough percieved volume without going into the RED field.

/Michael
www.xsynth.com - Sound Synthesis with Vintage flavour
sinzero
KVRian
 
505 posts since 13 Feb, 2009

Postby sinzero; Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:06 am

mkastrup wrote:I've added a new tutorial about using Velocity


cool!

aftertouch next? :)

thank you!
sinzero
KVRian
 
505 posts since 13 Feb, 2009

Postby sinzero; Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:39 am

hakey wrote:An example (I read about on KVR), a method for identifying harsh frequencies: In Zebra's EQ select one of the mid gains (the ones that arelabelled 2 and 3) and with a right-click and upward movement set Q to maximum ...

Any other EQing tips?


another way to find bad freqs is to sweep using a bandpass filter instead. sweeping is the most common, but even better is the following, I think

in his mixing book, paul stavrou suggests not using sweeping at all. he says to:
    listen to the source
    imagine how you want it to sound
    guess the freq that needs adjusting
    compare to the original
    repeat the above until you get it right

this way you train your ears to know the freqs (what does 1k sound like)

here's a cool tool for that kind of ear training: Platinum Ear
sinzero
KVRian
 
505 posts since 13 Feb, 2009

Postby sinzero; Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:47 am

I wanted to add to the above that, sweeping for freqs is very ear fatiguing. you need a lot of breaks from mixing/programming if you use it
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hakey
KVRAF
 
5150 posts since 25 Feb, 2008, from Babylon an ting

Postby hakey; Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:10 am

sinzero wrote:in his mixing book, paul stavrou suggests not using sweeping at all. he says to:
    listen to the source
    imagine how you want it to sound
    guess the freq that needs adjusting
    compare to the original
    repeat the above until you get it right
this way you train your ears to know the freqs (what does 1k sound like)


Yes, I'm sure that one of the really big differences between a beginner like me and seasoned veterans like Michael and Howard is just years of careful listening. EQing is still very much a dark art to me.

Looking at one of Howard's bass patches in Zebra Science, HS Mister Crusher, EQing is used in a way that seems counter-intuitive - there's a subtle boost at 3K and a roll of all freqs below 1.75K (there is a small peak at 150hz, though this is still below 0 amplitude, and a slight attenuation above 5.5K) - I would have thought that less low frequencies and more mids to high mids would result in a more 'midy' sound, but, comparing the patch with and without, the EQed version sounds somehow more bassey? :?
sinzero
KVRian
 
505 posts since 13 Feb, 2009

Postby sinzero; Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:47 am

hakey wrote:Yes, I'm sure that one of the really big differences between a beginner like me and seasoned veterans like Michael and Howard is just years of careful listening. EQing is still very much a dark art to me


Your patches don't sound like beginner's work to me. or are you an 8 yr old prodigy? :)
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hakey
KVRAF
 
5150 posts since 25 Feb, 2008, from Babylon an ting

Postby hakey; Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:29 am

sinzero wrote:
hakey wrote:Yes, I'm sure that one of the really big differences between a beginner like me and seasoned veterans like Michael and Howard is just years of careful listening. EQing is still very much a dark art to me


Your patches don't sound like beginner's work to me. or are you an 8 yr old prodigy? :)


:lol: That's very kind of you - no I'm not 8 - but I am very much a beginner - and, honestly, it's not false modesty when say that I'm very much in the minor leagues compared to the 'true Zebra Masters'.

I think it's often the case that one of the first things you learn when you try your hand at a new craft is that there's so more to learn. :wink:
MitchK1989
KVRAF
 
2594 posts since 2 Mar, 2006

Postby MitchK1989; Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:58 pm

I'm going to try and get some patches done in time no matter what, but is there a prize for these contests? if so, what is it? I know the prize for the first one was getting to play with a bazille prototype, but now everyone has that.
shogger
KVRAF
 
2669 posts since 11 Jun, 2007

Postby shogger; Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:24 pm

hakey wrote:And now here's some RULES! :x :P :hihi:
  • No voting for your own patch!
  • Everyone who submits a patch should also vote in the contest.


Thanx for that! :love: :lol: 8)

Shogger
What?
elxsound
KVRAF
 
4554 posts since 18 Aug, 2007, from NYC

Postby elxsound; Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:27 pm

MitchK1989 wrote:I'm going to try and get some patches done in time no matter what, but is there a prize for these contests? if so, what is it? I know the prize for the first one was getting to play with a bazille prototype, but now everyone has that.


Contest #1 was a FULL license to Bazille (not just "getting to play with a bazille prototype")

Contest #2 was a FULL license to Bazille and a preset from Michael Kastrup.

Contest #3 ?
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