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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
 
2275 posts since 23 Oct, 2000, from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Postby kevvvvv; Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:55 am Komplete Kontrol S61 won't work in Studio One. What else is there?

I woke up this morning ready to buy an S61 keyboard MK2 to replace my S25 MK1, only to discover that it won't work in Studio One 4.

What a bummer. Wrecked my day.

No sale NI.

I think it's poor that NI won't even give a timeline on implementing a fix.

Because no timeline is given, the conspiracy theorist in me now suspects NI and Presonus are in some high level pissing contest over technology standards, and won't talk to each other.

is there any other keyboard out there that can control Studio One?

My S25 is too small, and I badly need 61 keys.
Member 12, Studio One 4, Avenger, Kontakt loads, Output Signal & Analog Strings, Dune, Spire, Shreddage, BFD3, Izotope Neutron & Ozone
chk071
KVRAF
 
15792 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:19 am Re: Komplete Kontrol S61 won't work in Studio One. What else is there?

What doesn't work exactly? Doesn't work to add it as a default controller keyboard?
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zvenx
KVRAF
 
6260 posts since 16 Feb, 2005, from Kingston, Jamaica

Postby zvenx; Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:36 am Re: Komplete Kontrol S61 won't work in Studio One. What else is there?

I assume this is what he means:
Advanced Integration

rsp
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iPlogger
KVRian
 
677 posts since 27 Oct, 2011, from Pacific Northwest

Postby iPlogger; Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:12 am Re: Komplete Kontrol S61 won't work in Studio One. What else is there?

I've been doing a ton of research myself on the S61. Besides the lack of advanced functionality, the other big issue I read about is lack of transport control. Basically two big reasons to buy this board are unavailable to Studio One. You should still be able to use it in MIDI mode, though. Good to hear you figured this out before purchasing. I feel really bad for those who upgraded, only to find out the MK2 went backwards for many users.

Your option may be to buy a used S61 MK1.

I'm looking at it with Ableton Live, but my concern is the software doesn't allow for layering. That's extremely important to me and turns a definite purchase into "let me really think about this".
handed
KVRer
 
19 posts since 3 Jun, 2018

Postby handed; Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:49 am Re: Komplete Kontrol S61 won't work in Studio One. What else is there?

It’s possible to layer in Ableton, just takes a bit of extra routing. You can have two grouped tracks with separate instances of KK, responding to the same midi, and it’s easy to jump between them. Granted, it’s not native to KK, but’s it’s not that hard to set up if it’s make or break. I have the S61 Mk2 and it works a dream with Ableton.

It’s also possible to use the scale and chord modes etc with non-KK instruments, just takes a bit of extra setting up.
chk071
KVRAF
 
15792 posts since 10 Apr, 2010, from Germany

Postby chk071; Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:56 am Re: Komplete Kontrol S61 won't work in Studio One. What else is there?

kevvvvv wrote:Because no timeline is given, the conspiracy theorist in me now suspects NI and Presonus are in some high level pissing contest over technology standards, and won't talk to each other.

I don't know whether or not it has anything to do with the issue, but, Studio One actually handles MIDI in a bit different way than most other DAW's:

Look Mom, No MIDI!

The Musical Instrument Digital Interface (MIDI) specification was created in 1983. While it has served musicians well for more than 25 years, it has some limitations in terms of resolution and speed. We circumvent many of those limitations within Studio One by substituting our own high performance control system in place of MIDI when controlling certain vital internal parameters.

As an example, fine-grained parameter automation is provided within virtual instrument parts, rather than much lower-resolution (128 steps) MIDI control-data automation. The Control Link system is also made possible by abstracting MIDI from Studio One's internal processes. As MIDI evolves and new potential standards are developed, Studio One remains prepared for the innovations of the future.
johnwoo
KVRer
 
22 posts since 6 May, 2012

Postby johnwoo; Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:14 am Re: Komplete Kontrol S61 won't work in Studio One. What else is there?

I don't think is a conspiracy theory . Is just marketing ... Presonus don't want to support a competitive controller , and Native Instruments have for sure agreements with some other big firms . In the end I just bougth one S61 MK2 .

I hope that they will understand one day , that is the end user the one who suffer ...
simmo75
KVRian
 
788 posts since 25 Mar, 2016, from Seattle

Postby simmo75; Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:22 am Re: Komplete Kontrol S61 won't work in Studio One. What else is there?

My S49 works just fine with Studio One 4.
Edit: I have a MK 1
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aMUSEd
KVRAF
 
29433 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:39 am Re: Komplete Kontrol S61 won't work in Studio One. What else is there?

chk071 wrote:
kevvvvv wrote:Because no timeline is given, the conspiracy theorist in me now suspects NI and Presonus are in some high level pissing contest over technology standards, and won't talk to each other.

I don't know whether or not it has anything to do with the issue, but, Studio One actually handles MIDI in a bit different way than most other DAW's:

Look Mom, No MIDI!

The Musical Instrument Digital Interface (MIDI) specification was created in 1983. While it has served musicians well for more than 25 years, it has some limitations in terms of resolution and speed. We circumvent many of those limitations within Studio One by substituting our own high performance control system in place of MIDI when controlling certain vital internal parameters.

As an example, fine-grained parameter automation is provided within virtual instrument parts, rather than much lower-resolution (128 steps) MIDI control-data automation. The Control Link system is also made possible by abstracting MIDI from Studio One's internal processes. As MIDI evolves and new potential standards are developed, Studio One remains prepared for the innovations of the future.


The problem is they do this, and provide support for their own hardware interfaces and iOS app, but don't support common standards like OSC which is what the Series II keyboards seem to be using for 'advanced' integration.

At the same time NI have dropped support for a midi standard themselves - MCU compatibility - which means even in midi mode the Series II is not able to provide basic transport and other DAW functionality beyond CC automation and midi notes. NI have said they are exploring whether to bring that back, or something better to replace it, but clearly haven't decided exactly what form this will take, let alone when. It is possible to get some of those basic DAW functions such as transport control by creating templates using CC mapped to the 8 buttons the Series II has though, but it's a workaround, not a replacement.

So as happens all the time (similar issues between Steinberg and Bitwig for example) we have a situation brought about by the desire of both companies to innovate in some respects and stubbornly, perhaps myopically, clinging to their own vision of what that entails, while at the same time, tying people into their own commercial ecosystems in order to sell their own or partners products. Users get lost somewhere in between.
Last edited by aMUSEd on Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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aMUSEd
KVRAF
 
29433 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:45 am Re: Komplete Kontrol S61 won't work in Studio One. What else is there?

Just to be clear though, what is not supported in Studio One is 'advanced integration' and MCU mode based DAW integration. What does work though are basic midi functionality (notes using a quality keyboard and cc automation using 2 banks of 8 knobs and 8 buttons, a touchstrip/MW/pitchbend and aftertouch), as well as the functionality of Komplete Kontrol as a plugin and control of all plugins that loads (NKS). It is possible to get control over transport, stop/start etc using the buttons and cc as it would with any other controller with this functionality, just no more than that until one of the companies get's this sorted or, even better, they start talking to each other.
Last edited by aMUSEd on Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
 
2275 posts since 23 Oct, 2000, from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Postby kevvvvv; Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:46 am Re: Komplete Kontrol S61 won't work in Studio One. What else is there?

Amused
As ever you are on the money
Kevvvvv
Member 12, Studio One 4, Avenger, Kontakt loads, Output Signal & Analog Strings, Dune, Spire, Shreddage, BFD3, Izotope Neutron & Ozone

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