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Pros/Cons: Mu.Lab, Podium, Reaper, EnergyXT

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

saichele
KVRist
 
78 posts since 29 Nov, 2009

Postby saichele; Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:22 pm Pros/Cons: Mu.Lab, Podium, Reaper, EnergyXT

Looking for an unbloated, Midi-centric DAW. These are all cheap/free, so thought I'd start here.
kyodeejay
KVRian
 
650 posts since 19 Dec, 2003

Postby kyodeejay; Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:46 am

It's simple:

If you need to work mainly with audio then go Reaper
If you need to work mainly with MIDI then go Podium
MuLab and EnergyXT are in the middle.

I don't know what features are you looking for, but here I write a personal opinion about some of them.

Reaper
- Piano roll / Drumroll: Bad
- Automation system: Bad
- TimeStretch: Yes
- Audio handling features: Good
- Recording features: Good
- Freeze/Bouncing: Regular
- Customizable: Good
- MIDI Plugins: Yes
- CPU Handling: Good
- File Handling: Good
- Routing: Good
- Learning Curve: Bad
- Workflow: Regular
- Support: Good

Podium

- Piano roll / Drumroll: Good
- Automation system: Good
- TimeStretch: No
- Audio handling features: Regular
- Recording features: Regular
- Freeze/Bouncing: Good
- Customizable: Good
- MIDI Plugins: No
- CPU Handling: Good
- File Handling: Bad
- Routing: Regular
- Learning Curve: Bad
- Workflow: Good
- Support: Good

MuLab

- Piano roll / Drumroll: Bad
- Automation system: Good
- TimeStretch: (I don't know)
- Audio handling features: Regular
- Recording features: Good
- Freeze/Bouncing: (I don't know)
- Customizable: Bad
- MIDI Plugins: Yes
- CPU Handling: Bad
- File Handling: (I don't know)
- Routing: Good
- Learning Curve: Regular
- Workflow: Regular
- Support: Good


EnergyXT

- Piano roll / Drumroll: Regular
- Automation system: Good
- TimeStretch: Yes
- Audio handling features: Regular
- Recording features: (I don't know)
- Freeze/Bouncing: Regular
- Customizable: Regular
- MIDI Plugins: Yes
- CPU Handling: Bad
- File Handling: (I don't know)
- Routing: Good
- Learning Curve: Good
- Workflow: Good
- Support: Regular
hibidy
KVRAF
 
41499 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:58 am

Nevermind, I was not aware of podium/mulab's free stuff.

However, I do NOT approve of using reaper just for free (ffs, the license is so cheap and it's freaking "off the hook!" )
Last edited by hibidy on Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby deleted; Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:02 am

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hibidy
KVRAF
 
41499 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:07 am

michi_mak wrote:
there is Mu.Lab Free and Podium Free and some guys refer to Reaper as being free either ( despite the fact that it's "only" unexpiring ).

very interesting pros and cons!


Sorry, I just know how people love to use reaper for "free". Not a big fan.... but I'll edit my post anyways.
User avatar
pljones
KVRAF
 
4645 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:17 am

OK, some of those will be a matter of opinion / experience... ;) Nice summary over all, though.
kyodeejay wrote:MuLab
- TimeStretch: PLJ: Not that I'm aware of...
- File Handling: PLJ: As a fan of MU.LAB, even I have to say it's "bad"...

It has got Freeze/Bounce but I've not used that in other hosts to know whether it's comparatively any good. With it's capability for complex routing, it can be a tricky thing to get right, too, I understand.
User avatar
GaryG
KVRAF
 
4632 posts since 13 Jan, 2003, from Kent, UK

Postby GaryG; Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:38 am

Subjective I know but, as a primarily eXT/Reaper user, I don't understand how midi in Reaper is bad and eXT good... lots more options (randomisaztions, colours etc) in Reaper.

I find I use eXT more for day-to-day messing about because it's so quick but when I get really creative then Reaper comes out, all the stuff like parameter modulation comes in really handy.

'course nothing beated Tracktion in it's day... :( ;)
()_()
(O.o)
(")(")
IIRs
KVRAF
 
6716 posts since 24 Mar, 2002, from sheffield, england

Postby IIRs; Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:47 am

kyodeejay wrote:Reaper

- Automation system: Bad



What's wrong with Reaper's automation?
NAS
KVRAF
 
2803 posts since 12 Sep, 2004

Postby NAS; Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:55 am

GaryG wrote:Subjective I know but, as a primarily eXT/Reaper user, I don't understand how midi in Reaper is bad and eXT good... lots more options (randomisaztions, colours etc) in Reaper.

I find I use eXT more for day-to-day messing about because it's so quick but when I get really creative then Reaper comes out, all the stuff like parameter modulation comes in really handy.

'course nothing beated Tracktion in it's day... :( ;)



Your kidding right
Tracktion was my favourite app for years (Not leats because Jules is cool as beans) but the MIDI always sucked in Tracktion and still does

GaryG wrote:What's wrong with Reaper's automation?


Well it is quite a big list but for starters there are no Automation clips (Although i hackd a working version that a lot of people now use
Editing Reapers automation is blatantly just for mix automation not for synthesists and so on
Actally you know what if it works for you good, for a bunch of the rest of us it doesn't work well enough but hey ho that is Cockos and Reaper all round, the 80 percenter (Old users know what this means)

NAS
Omerta
IIRs
KVRAF
 
6716 posts since 24 Mar, 2002, from sheffield, england

Postby IIRs; Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:46 am

NAS wrote:Editing Reapers automation is blatantly just for mix automation not for synthesists and so on
Actally you know what if it works for you good, for a bunch of the rest of us it doesn't work well enough but hey ho that is Cockos and Reaper all round, the 80 percenter (Old users know what this means)

NAS


I wasn't leaping to Reaper's defense! Just curious to know what he was missing, as I have found the automation generally superior to the likes of Logic or Cubase. I find the parameter modulation really useful for creative synthesis...

How would automation clips be better than envelope-points-move-with-clips mode?
bullshark
KVRAF
 
1929 posts since 19 Apr, 2006, from Montreal, Canada

Postby bullshark; Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:20 am

hibidy wrote:Nevermind, I was not aware of podium/mulab's free stuff.

However, I do NOT approve of using reaper just for free (ffs, the license is so cheap and it's freaking "off the hook!" )
Reaper has a free version too, Reaper version 0.999(and below) which you can get here: http://www.cockos.com/reaper/download-old.php?ver=0x.

But yeah, the current version of Reaper isn't free.
No, that wasn't me.
NAS
KVRAF
 
2803 posts since 12 Sep, 2004

Postby NAS; Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:44 am

IIRs wrote:
NAS wrote:Editing Reapers automation is blatantly just for mix automation not for synthesists and so on
Actally you know what if it works for you good, for a bunch of the rest of us it doesn't work well enough but hey ho that is Cockos and Reaper all round, the 80 percenter (Old users know what this means)

NAS


I wasn't leaping to Reaper's defense! Just curious to know what he was missing, as I have found the automation generally superior to the likes of Logic or Cubase. I find the parameter modulation really useful for creative synthesis...

How would automation clips be better than envelope-points-move-with-clips mode?


I did post a video when i was still on the Reaper forum
You can stretch/shrink/loop/cut/copy/paste/glue/duplicate/send to multiple targets/send multiple clips to same target/save as a clip to use in another project/plus lots more
If you can't see why it would be better from that tiny list then maybe it wouldn't be better for you dunno
Maybe it is because i am used to automation clips

NAS
Omerta
User avatar
aMUSEd
KVRAF
 
20064 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:52 am

NAS wrote:
GaryG wrote:Subjective I know but, as a primarily eXT/Reaper user, I don't understand how midi in Reaper is bad and eXT good... lots more options (randomisaztions, colours etc) in Reaper.

I find I use eXT more for day-to-day messing about because it's so quick but when I get really creative then Reaper comes out, all the stuff like parameter modulation comes in really handy.

'course nothing beated Tracktion in it's day... :( ;)



Your kidding right
Tracktion was my favourite app for years (Not leats because Jules is cool as beans) but the MIDI always sucked in Tracktion and still does

GaryG wrote:What's wrong with Reaper's automation?


Well it is quite a big list but for starters there are no Automation clips (Although i hackd a working version that a lot of people now use
Editing Reapers automation is blatantly just for mix automation not for synthesists and so on


I never use mix automation but do use Reaper to automate synths and effects (especially Kore 2). Out of all hosts I've tried it has the best features for automation - only Podium comes close and only Temper beats it but Temper has stalled. I don't use clips though so I don't have a need for them.
kyodeejay
KVRian
 
650 posts since 19 Dec, 2003

Postby kyodeejay; Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:03 am

IIRs wrote:
kyodeejay wrote:Reaper

- Automation system: Bad



What's wrong with Reaper's automation?


Not automation clip, not easy, not per-clip automation, no 'bars' automations. However:

kyodeejay wrote:but here I write a personal opinion about some of them.
IIRs
KVRAF
 
6716 posts since 24 Mar, 2002, from sheffield, england

Postby IIRs; Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:36 am

NAS wrote:You can stretch/shrink/loop/cut/copy/paste/glue/duplicate/send to multiple targets/send multiple clips to same target/save as a clip to use in another project/plus lots more


Reaper can happily copy, paste, duplicate and send to multiple targets (via copy and paste). Glue is only relevent if clips are used anyway. As far as multiple clips to the same target goes, how is that useful? What if they contradict one another: how do you know which one takes priority?

<edit> not saying your request isn't valid btw: just curious to know how exactly it would work.
Last edited by IIRs on Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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