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KVRist
 
260 posts since 19 Aug, 2006
 

Postby mucoder; Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:09 pm

already on the ever growing to-do list ;-)
tonespace / hypercyclic
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KVRist
 
53 posts since 12 Jun, 2009, from San Diego

Postby paulhart; Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:49 pm

Mucoder, Thank you for the efforts, on all of our behalf... I have learned along the way. I can imagine your frustration at the "clunkers" out here taking your finely crafted tool and bashing it around expecting it to work in ways that are counter to it's design and concept, pardon my ignorance ;>] I will continue to push to see what I can get it to do, and try to better understand the 'cell' rather than note concept...
KVRist
 
260 posts since 19 Aug, 2006
 

Postby mucoder; Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:08 am

no worries, Paul! critical feedback is also feedback, and certainly useful to me. And the only real frustration I have is that human cloning devices are not yet on the market, taking me half a decade between releases :D
tonespace / hypercyclic
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KVRist
 
326 posts since 17 Jun, 2004, from south germany
 

Postby obstgegenrechz; Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:45 am

man this is amazing!!!!! What a Tool!!!!!
Thanks!

... but: :) i'm not happy about your decision on the Trigger-with-MIDI-Keyboard-without-needing-the-mouse-Issue... Why do you bother which MIDI-Notes trigger chords? i would like that all incoming notes trigger chords. Then its the User who is responsable ... :) was that explained well? dont know...

Anyway Thanks for your amazing work!!!

Joe
KVRist
 
200 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Postby audio_dude; Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:59 pm

Hi,

congratulations for the release of the new tonespace: one day or another, I'll make a donation!

Actually, tonespace lacks only one -important!- thing: playing C4 (or any other note, of course) on a MIDI keyboard or clicking on C4 with the mouse should do the same thing, IMHO => I really would like to trigger chords with my MIDI keyboard without having to bother with the mouse.

Anyway, keep up the good work: tonespace is a very cool piece of software! (I'm looking forward to the next beta :wink: )
Last edited by audio_dude on Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
KVRist
 
113 posts since 27 Dec, 2007

Postby jbone1313; Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:37 pm

mucoder wrote:
zappadave wrote:In v.1 you could use "Trigger chord at note",


paulhart wrote:I too liked the ability to "Trigger Chord at Note"


OK, guys, point taken. This is the one feature that was left out of TS2 because there was a conceptual problem with it. Imagine a space with multiple cells for the same midi note. If you hit a note on your keyboard (or send in a midi note via the daw): which cells with that midi note should be triggered?
-all of them?
-just one? which one then?

The chord generation algorithm needs exactly 1 cell (not a note, but a cell) as input and then looks at the neighbour cells to find the geometric shapes that are possible to fit a chord onto (neighbour cells that could theoretically be different for each candidate cell with that same midi note). Therefore you cannot just take any cell, since each one could theoretically generate a different chord. So how do I select the right cell?

Note that when selecting cells with the mouse, the problem does not arise, since there the user always clearly indicates which cell is the input.

TS1 made it easy on itself: it just took the first cell with the incoming midi note it could find in the space and that was the one. That never felt quite right to me. It's too arbitrary.

In any case, if there is sufficient demand (and two requests I will consider sufficient ;-)) I'll try to put the feature back in. But I have to brood a little first on ways of making it also conceptually right...


"Trigger Chord at Note" is a MUST HAVE! It's what made Tonespace so cool to me from the beginning--that you could just "play it" without thinking about harmony. Great for drummers.

I actually built a Kore Sound, and then switched to an Ableton device, whereby I put scale plugins in front of Tonespace in the MIDI chain. That way, I can simply turn a knob to change modes. I also mapped other knobs, so basically I can change key, mode, voicing, and # of notes with the turn of knob(s), and that allows me to play only the white keys on the piano to create melody and harmony. I also had to use a ReaJS to get the transposition working right.

It's the sickest thing ever. I call the device the "Uber Instrument". I always hoped Tonespace 2 would build that functionality in--it would probably be not too hard I would guess. That way, one would not need Kore or Ableton to do the above. I actually couldn't get Kore to switch the modes with the keys--I had to use Ableton for that. It was something about how Ableton allows you to map devices on/off that bridged the gap for this to work.

But, if this were all built into Tonespace, it would greatly increase the flexibility of this, "Uber Instrument". For example, I would love to run this inside of Maschine. It would be so sick. But, since I can't get it to work right inside of Kore, that's not an option.
KVRist
 
260 posts since 19 Aug, 2006
 

Postby mucoder; Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:43 pm

no worries, I can take a hint :wink: - it was already decided that I will add the Trigger-Chord-At-Note feature back in

As to midi mapping: you can already map any tonespace parameter onto midi controllers using Ableton Live midi mapping (like with any VST plugin).

not sure though how your scale plugins and transposition tools work with this. You mean you need a mapping from the white keys onto another scale/key before the midi even reaches tonespace?
tonespace / hypercyclic
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KVRist
 
326 posts since 17 Jun, 2004, from south germany
 

Postby obstgegenrechz; Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:13 am

mucoder wrote:no worries, I can take a hint :wink: - it was already decided that I will add the Trigger-Chord-At-Note feature back in


YAY!!!!!! :D
KVRist
 
113 posts since 27 Dec, 2007

Postby jbone1313; Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:23 am

mucoder wrote:no worries, I can take a hint :wink: - it was already decided that I will add the Trigger-Chord-At-Note feature back in

Sweet!

mucoder wrote:As to midi mapping: you can already map any tonespace parameter onto midi controllers using Ableton Live midi mapping (like with any VST plugin).

That's not the issue. The issue is getting Tonespace's scale parameter to flow 1:1 with another parameter from another plugin, so that when the scale plugin changes, the Tonespace scale parameter changes and corresponds. I could only get this to work with Ableton.

mucoder wrote:not sure though how your scale plugins and transposition tools work with this. You mean you need a mapping from the white keys onto another scale/key before the midi even reaches tonespace?


Yes, I put a scale plug before tonespace, which forces the incoming notes to a particular scale or mode--the one that Tonespace is set to. That way, I can jam out without thinking about harmony. It's incredible, really. Playing with one hand, while turning the voicing knob, transposition knob, or others, while recording the MIDI output generates unlimited new musical ideas.

I also added a transpose plugin after Tonespace, so that I can easily change the key.

I imagine that Tonespace could easily solve this problem by having an option called, "Trigger Chord at Note - Unrestricted". Tonepsace would then force incoming MIDI to whatever scale/mode/key is set in Tonespace.

That would be insanely brilliant.

Maybe this weekend I'll make a video of me using my Ableton device...
KVRer
 
7 posts since 14 Dec, 2010

Postby rudemummy; Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:04 am

Hi,

First off, great work! Is there a way to set up the midi output in the AU version, using ableton, to another midi track to trigger another instrument like reaktor etc? Im probably missing something obvious but its a bit tricky and I cant get a midi signal to another track.

Would be a great help,

Cheers!
KVRist
 
260 posts since 19 Aug, 2006
 

Postby mucoder; Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:17 am

jbone1313 wrote:by having an option called, "Trigger Chord at Note - Unrestricted".


noted. But surely you mean 'Restricted', not 'Unrestricted'? I mean, you want to restrict midi input notes to white keys only (CMajor scale), and you want these white keys mapped to another scale/mode (eg CMinor) or transposed to another key (eg DMajor) or both. Right?
tonespace / hypercyclic
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KVRist
 
260 posts since 19 Aug, 2006
 

Postby mucoder; Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:21 am

rudemummy wrote:set up the midi output in the AU version, using ableton


sorry, AU plugins have no capability of sending midi output directly back to the host, but the VST version should do the trick without problem in Ableton.
tonespace / hypercyclic
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KVRist
 
113 posts since 27 Dec, 2007

Postby jbone1313; Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:21 am

mucoder wrote:
jbone1313 wrote:by having an option called, "Trigger Chord at Note - Unrestricted".


noted. But surely you mean 'Restricted', not 'Unrestricted'? I mean, you want to restrict midi input notes to white keys only (CMajor scale), and you want these white keys mapped to another scale/mode (eg CMinor) or transposed to another key (eg DMajor) or both. Right?


Precisely.
KVRer
 
12 posts since 24 Jan, 2010

Postby noshado; Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:10 am

mucoder wrote:no worries, I can take a hint :wink: - it was already decided that I will add the Trigger-Chord-At-Note feature back in


Great!!!

Fantastic plugin, thanks!!!!
Great work coming from onze zuiderburen :)

Grtz.
KVRist
 
260 posts since 19 Aug, 2006
 

Postby mucoder; Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:58 am

thanks/bedankt noshado!
tonespace / hypercyclic
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