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Top-down piano rolls?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion

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KVRAF
 
3903 posts since 23 Mar, 2006, from pendeLondonmonium
 

Postby himalaya; Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:51 pm

braj wrote:It is much easier to go 'oh, that is a c chord' and 'hear' what is onscreen. It would be just way more musical. Not instead of, but in addition to what is standard now.


Exactly! :) (even though it is easy to spot a c chord in the vertical view :hihi: but less easy to read abstract block chords I'd play at night after a few glasses of wine :D ).
http://www.electric-himalaya.com
VSTi and hardware synth sound design
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KVRAF
 
1608 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America

Postby Jace-BeOS; Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:09 pm

Why would controller lanes have to be lost on such a view? Rotate them too.

Really, as said before me, with all the ways in which we are able to slide and move screen elements around, this is a logical feature to have. The static quality of many current GUI components isn't exactly the best way, as many other GUI components show. We're seeing animation added where it assists in eye tracking and cognitive flow, so why not in a piano roll?

(The first DAW I expect to find this will not be Sonar, I can tell you that - Sonar has prettied the buttons and window dressing a bit but the views are still clunky and jerky)
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my music @ SoundCloud
KVRAF
 
1567 posts since 13 Mar, 2004

Postby No_Use; Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:58 pm

There's an older article with some thoughts on this.

http://www.bikexprt.com/cakewalk/pianorol1.htm
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Rad Grandad
 
24003 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.
   

Postby Hink; Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:11 pm

james0tucson wrote:
braj wrote:I'm talking about an option, an alternate view, not something you would use all the time. But for arranging some things it could be helpful. I am just wondering 'why not'. And sure, I used Master Tracks back in the 80's and that was all left>right. Just with technology we can do things and present things in so many ways, and this seems like a useful way to me.


It's hard to think of the proposal as "alternative", since I don't know anyone who plays keyboard instruments by sitting with keys perpendicular to them. Even I, known to play the piano from above by laying lengthwise on the piano case, have never tried that. Standing with right up against the "low A" end, I can lean over and just barely reach to the high C. And this is exactly how I perceive the vertical orientation of the keyboard in piano roll sequencers...


I would not want such a piano roll because I am use to what is the norm now, but I'm not getting the perpendicular reference. Like you said, a keyboard laid out in front of you has the keys going from left to right but on my piano rolls the keys from down to up while the timeline goes from left to right...:shrug:
Two fish are in a tank. One turns to the other and says, "how do you drive this thing"

The Moon Sleeps in the Middle of the Day
KVRAF
 
8636 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:21 pm

well, for a Chinese reader chronology goes from top to bottom so, no problem I suppose.

I think no one said you'd lose the controller lanes, but the chronology is now from top to bottom. that isn't intuitive to me, YMMV I guess. I think of music in terms of sonority, in intervals, high = high, low = low, and left to right is the way I weigh intervals in chronology.

Has anyone here ever written automation/controller lanes top to bottom? left = less, right = more?
Last edited by jancivil on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KVRian
 
593 posts since 14 Apr, 2005

Postby drjohnny79; Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:19 pm

drjohnny79 wrote:I used this... It's pattern based. Seems it's available for win now:
http://www.ronimusic.com/s16_win.htm

Image

/Johnny


Just in case someone didnt see my post.

;-)

/Johnny
KVRAF
 
8636 posts since 20 Oct, 2007

Postby jancivil; Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:56 pm

90's stylee! :hihi:
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Rad Grandad
 
24003 posts since 5 Sep, 2003, from New England U.S.A.
   

Postby Hink; Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:59 pm

jancivil wrote:90's stylee! :hihi:


does it scare you half as much as it scares me that 90s is now retro? :hihi:
Two fish are in a tank. One turns to the other and says, "how do you drive this thing"

The Moon Sleeps in the Middle of the Day
Pick Me Pick me!
 
7540 posts since 11 Mar, 2002, from in a state of confusion
 

Postby VitaminD; Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:15 pm

Yeah we basically had this with MOD trackers in the 80s and 90s. Man I hated it. It is also the way Synthesia (http://synthesiagame.com/) works too. My eyes would still try to track up and down for awhile even after the music had stopped. :hihi:

:shrug:
"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except the best." - Henry Van Dyke
KVRist
 
218 posts since 3 Mar, 2004, from rochdale uk

Postby kippertoffee; Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:50 pm

Aodix (I seem to remember)

http://www.aodix.com/pageaodixv4.html
KVRAF
 
4286 posts since 23 Feb, 2004, from Tucson Arizona USA

Postby james0tucson; Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:29 pm

jancivil wrote:well, for a Chinese reader chronology goes from top to bottom so, no problem I suppose.

I think no one said you'd lose the controller lanes, but the chronology is now from top to bottom. that isn't intuitive to me, YMMV I guess. I think of music in terms of sonority, in intervals, high = high, low = low, and left to right is the way I weigh intervals in chronology.

Has anyone here ever written automation/controller lanes top to bottom? left = less, right = more?


It's because it's a "piano roll" idiom that the orientation shift bothers me. If it represented a transverse flute fingering, I'd be bothered if it wasn't vertical. On the other hand, I don't know many people who work with standard notation who would be very willing to tolerate the staff being rotated 90 degrees. I understand your point with respect to chronology and intervals, but as a piano player (old enough to have worked with piano rolls when they were 'merely antique' and not quite the historical artifact that they are today :-), it bothers me a lot to see a piano keyboard represented as if I'm sitting to the left of it looking across the keys. I want it to be from the point of view of the performer, and anything else feels completely wrong and contrived. It would bother me a lot less if it didn't try to look like a piano keyboard. Maybe it's not the orientation that bothers me, as much as it's a piano keyboard in the wrong orientation.
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