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Salamander Drumkit

Sampler and Sampling discussion (techniques, tips and tricks, etc.)

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rytmenpinne
KVRer
 
25 posts since 30 Apr, 2010

Postby rytmenpinne; Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:27 am Salamander Drumkit

I sample my drumkit, All samples are stereo, normalized and have no eq/compression or other effects. I'll let you the user figure thatone out :)

It's mapped with sfz and only tested with linuxsampler(get the latest development version for best result) It probably works as well with other samplers tho..

http://rytmenpinne.wordpress.com/salamander-drumkit/
http://rytmenpinne.wordpress.com

Enjoy :)
Last edited by rytmenpinne on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://sharpattack.bandcamp.com/ My very own one man band project, one song has the original Yamaha C5 I sampled to make the salamander libray ;P
fedexnman
KVRian
 
1331 posts since 3 Jan, 2005

Postby fedexnman; Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:42 am

It'd be real cool if you released the individual samples as 24bit 44.1 samples . Nice sounding tunes on your bandcamp page , kinda jazzy !!!!
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pljones
KVRAF
 
4621 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:10 am

I'll give it a go later. Just spotted this:
The hihat pedal is controlled with cc64 messages
That should really use MIDI Foot Controller (CC#4). (I can never remember if it's zero for fully open or the other way up.)

Thanks for sampling and an interesting approach - I'm looking forward to hearing it! :)
audiojunkie
KVRAF
 
2681 posts since 18 Apr, 2002, from Ogden, UT

Postby audiojunkie; Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:31 pm

Hey Thanks rytmenpinne!!! Thanks for supporting SFZ too! Linuxsampler is really coming along, isn't it! (Now if someone would just create an inexpensive, easy-to-use GUI-based SFZ sample mapper, things would be even better. SFZed is the best there is at the moment, but it only supports version 1 of the SFZ spec, and also isn't very graphics based. :-) I'll keep hoping someone steps up and writes one. For the time being, I'll continue tweaking things with SFZed and keeping my eyes out for great packages like this one! :-)

Thanks again for your great kindness!!!!!

--Sean
rytmenpinne
KVRer
 
25 posts since 30 Apr, 2010

Postby rytmenpinne; Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:40 am

audiojunkie wrote:Hey Thanks rytmenpinne!!! Thanks for supporting SFZ too! Linuxsampler is really coming along, isn't it! (Now if someone would just create an inexpensive, easy-to-use GUI-based SFZ sample mapper, things would be even better. SFZed is the best there is at the moment, but it only supports version 1 of the SFZ spec, and also isn't very graphics based. :-) I'll keep hoping someone steps up and writes one. For the time being, I'll continue tweaking things with SFZed and keeping my eyes out for great packages like this one! :-)

Thanks again for your great kindness!!!!!

--Sean


Have you considered trying editing with an text editor? :) it really is much easier and faster than you would think.. I also first used SFZed for the salamander piano, but it puts a rowchange after evey opcode so the files becomes massive. Afaik, the salamander piano was over 6000 lines when I first made it. Then to version 3 I removed all the rowchanges and reduced it to maby 1000 lines, so you can actually read the thing.


pljones wrote:That should really use MIDI Foot Controller (CC#4). (I can never remember if it's zero for fully open or the other way up.)


I see, so that would be what actual e-drum kits send then?
http://sharpattack.bandcamp.com/ My very own one man band project, one song has the original Yamaha C5 I sampled to make the salamander libray ;P
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pljones
KVRAF
 
4621 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:49 am

Short version: Yes.
Longer: The MIDI spec assigns CC#4 to mean "Foot controller" and that's what hi-hat pedals send by default on most e-drum kits (I've seen some cheap ones that send CC#1, IIRC).

Not too much of an issue to do find/replace, of course, to match whatever you want. (Yes, totally agree on editing SFZ with a text editor: Notepad++ makes it a breeze.)
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stanlea
KVRAF
 
4624 posts since 11 Feb, 2005, from Bordeaux France

Postby stanlea; Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:12 am

Thanks for this set. A good basic quality drumset. There are not so much.
You can't always get what you waaaant...
audiojunkie
KVRAF
 
2681 posts since 18 Apr, 2002, from Ogden, UT

Postby audiojunkie; Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:22 am

rytmenpinne wrote:
audiojunkie wrote:Hey Thanks rytmenpinne!!! Thanks for supporting SFZ too! Linuxsampler is really coming along, isn't it! (Now if someone would just create an inexpensive, easy-to-use GUI-based SFZ sample mapper, things would be even better. SFZed is the best there is at the moment, but it only supports version 1 of the SFZ spec, and also isn't very graphics based. :-) I'll keep hoping someone steps up and writes one. For the time being, I'll continue tweaking things with SFZed and keeping my eyes out for great packages like this one! :-)

Thanks again for your great kindness!!!!!

--Sean


Have you considered trying editing with an text editor? :) it really is much easier and faster than you would think.. I also first used SFZed for the salamander piano, but it puts a rowchange after evey opcode so the files becomes massive. Afaik, the salamander piano was over 6000 lines when I first made it. Then to version 3 I removed all the rowchanges and reduced it to maby 1000 lines, so you can actually read the thing.

pljones wrote:That should really use MIDI Foot Controller (CC#4). (I can never remember if it's zero for fully open or the other way up.)


I see, so that would be what actual e-drum kits send then?


Yeah, I considered a text editor, but found it more difficult than SFZed. Ideally, I would rather not have to know all of the opcodes, and would like to be able to easily map everything on an easy to use GUI based sample mapper. I would probably benefit from buying Simon Cann's book too, but I've heard that it is incomplete and has errors in it too. I believe the most complete and correct list of opcodes can be found on the LinuxSampler site, but then again, I would still rather do it with a GUI instead of a text editor.

By the way, what plugins are you testing Salamander on? I've found that the row changes help with compatibility between the various programs that read SFZ. The main programs I test against are: Dimension LE/Pro, Alchemy Player/Pro, SFZ, Wusikstation, Samplelord, LinuxSampler etc.

I've come to realize that SFZ patches need to be tested on the various players--similar to how web developers need to test on the various types of browsers. :?

But this is all taking away from your topic, which is the great contribution you have provided to all of us! Thank you again for providing this!!! If you want to continue to discuss things, I would be happy to start a PM conversation with you, since I'm always learning things when I talk to other SFZ developers. :-) ..or you can talk about it here, since it's your thread. ;-)

--Sean
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.
rytmenpinne
KVRer
 
25 posts since 30 Apr, 2010

Postby rytmenpinne; Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:32 pm

audiojunkie wrote:Yeah, I considered a text editor, but found it more difficult than SFZed. Ideally, I would rather not have to know all of the opcodes, and would like to be able to easily map everything on an easy to use GUI based sample mapper. I would probably benefit from buying Simon Cann's book too, but I've heard that it is incomplete and has errors in it too. I believe the most complete and correct list of opcodes can be found on the LinuxSampler site, but then again, I would still rather do it with a GUI instead of a text editor.


I'm afraid a GUI sampler mapper would be quite a big project simply due to the amount of available opcodes, but I do admit that doing envelope generators, filters and stuff like that would be somewhat easier with a GUI.. anyway for my part, it's just not gonna happen since I'm on linux exclusivly.

audiojunkie wrote:By the way, what plugins are you testing Salamander on? I've found that the row changes help with compatibility between the various programs that read SFZ. The main programs I test against are: Dimension LE/Pro, Alchemy Player/Pro, SFZ, Wusikstation, Samplelord, LinuxSampler etc.

I've come to realize that SFZ patches need to be tested on the various players--similar to how web developers need to test on the various types of browsers. :?


That is true, unfortunately I can only test mine with LS :P

audiojunkie wrote:But this is all taking away from your topic, which is the great contribution you have provided to all of us! Thank you again for providing this!!! If you want to continue to discuss things, I would be happy to start a PM conversation with you, since I'm always learning things when I talk to other SFZ developers. :-) ..or you can talk about it here, since it's your thread. ;-)

--Sean


Here is just fine, but I'm by no means an sfz expert :P


A couple of bugs have surfaced in the package too, the gravest one is level jumps(pops and klicks) in the end of the kick samples..

two more in the sfz files, the bellchime has en error:

"<region> sample=OH\bellchime_F_2.wav lorand=0.33 hirand=0.66s" <- shouldn't be an 's' there, and "lovel" should be down to 0 or removed along with "hivel".

And, the snare2 samples have "seq_length=" defined even tho they're on random trigging.. This causes skips with no sample being triggered at times..
http://sharpattack.bandcamp.com/ My very own one man band project, one song has the original Yamaha C5 I sampled to make the salamander libray ;P
wheresthedug
KVRer
 
3 posts since 20 Apr, 2013, from Glasgow

Postby wheresthedug; Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:05 am

Thanks for making the samples available they are truly awesome. Your album sounds really good too.

I'm a real newbie (only a humble guitarist so well out my depth with sampler instrument!).

I think I have got my head round the way Logic treats samples and sampler instruments (even read some of the manual) but I am struggle to understand the Salamander Kit properly.

The first question is - can Logic recognise the sampler instruments or do I need to create my own EXS24 instrument using the basic samples? Why I downloaded the files I got a folder "OH" with all the samples in it. I also got a few individual files All.sfz crashesFX.sfz hihat.sfz etc I assume these are the sampler instruments for the Linux Sampler. You said that you assume it works for other samplers but can't be sure. Do you know if it is possible to use EXS24 as is or do I need to create an instrument? Alternatively, can Linuxsampler be used as an instrument plugin in Logic Pro 9?

The second question is - you explained that there are only two velocity layers per sample but multiple samples which can be triggered in a round robin. How does this work? How would I go about setting up a sampler instrument in EXS24 or similar to use this feature?

Thanks again for some killer samples.
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pljones
KVRAF
 
4621 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:47 pm

You can get sforzando for both PC and Mac, I believe. It's free and loads sfz files natively. If you can load VSTis, that's your best option. If you can't load VSTis, get something that can ;).
wheresthedug
KVRer
 
3 posts since 20 Apr, 2013, from Glasgow

Postby wheresthedug; Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:04 am

OK, thanks.

I have downloaded sforando for mac and loaded it as a VST plugin in Logic. The kit now works nicely. Sounds really good.

I now have another question though. The hi hats don't play as a group - i.e. I can play multiple hi hats at the same time and when I play an open hi hat followed by a closed the open keeps ringing rather than being cut off. I have never worked in a text based editor before. How do I group all the hi hat samples to limit them to single note polyphony?
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pljones
KVRAF
 
4621 posts since 8 Feb, 2003, from London, UK

Postby pljones; Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:33 pm

The Pedal group has "group=1" and the non-closed groups have "offby=1", so the pedal group mutes them. Other than that, they don't cross-mute. If you want something more complicated... this is what I'm working on at the moment - it doesn't have as many different variations on the "semi-open" and the mappings (i.e. "key=" values) are a little different, too, so you'll need to adapt it a bit. The method adopted is that any "more closed" region should mute a less open region but not the other way around. Also worth noting is that I give all regions a respectable release time even for muting like this - it sounds more natural, to me.

("*silence" is an Aria Player - which is what sforzando uses - "special" sample name... I could never get LinuxSampler to do muting properly, which is one reason I gave up on it.)

Feel free to adapt this to your needs.
Code: Select all
//***
// Aria Player sfz Mapping for ADTS2 Gorilla Hi-hat muting
// created by Peter L Jones 2012
//***

// Muting - tighter note ons mute looser notes playing:
//             <----- Note Playing ----->   Group
// NoteOn      PD/TP/TT/CL LS VL SO OP FS
// PD/TP/TT/CL      -       y  y  y  y  y     6
// LS               -       -  y  y  y  y     5
// VL               -       -  -  y  y  y     4
// SO               -       -  -  -  y  y     3
// OP               -       -  -  -  -  -     2       (needed to set off_by)
// FS               -       y  y  y  y  -     1

// OffBy Group      -      95 94 93 92 91

// Group 91: SO VL LS CL TT, TP, PD -> Foot Splash
<group> group=91 sample=*silence
<region> key=044
<region> key=060
<region> key=042 locc4=009 hicc4=127

// Group 92: FS, SO VL LS CL TT, TP, PD -> Open
<group> group=92 sample=*silence
<region> key=044
<region> key=060
<region> key=042 locc4=009 hicc4=127
<region> key=069

// Group 93: FS, VL LS CL TT, TP, PD -> Semi-Open
<group> group=93 sample=*silence
<region> key=044
<region> key=060
<region> key=042 locc4=018 hicc4=127
<region> key=069

// Group 94: FS, LS CL TT, TP, PD -> Very Loose
<group> group=94 sample=*silence
<region> key=044
<region> key=060
<region> key=042 locc4=029 hicc4=127
<region> key=069

// Group 95: FS, CL TT, TP, PD -> Loose
<group> group=95 sample=*silence
<region> key=044
<region> key=060
<region> key=042 locc4=078 hicc4=127
<region> key=069
wheresthedug
KVRer
 
3 posts since 20 Apr, 2013, from Glasgow

Postby wheresthedug; Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:43 pm

Peter

Thanks for the answer but it's way out of my league. I can follow the logic but have no idea how to actually implement the code. On a very steep learning curve I'm afraid :-o

To be honest, I'm not trying to achieve anything that advanced just make the open hi hat stop when I play either a foot closed or standard closed hi hat. However, this doesn't seem to be happening. I just tried re loading the Salamander Kit All.sfz in sforsando but I get an error (which I actually got the last time even though it appeared to load afterwards) saying

"sforzando Error

group(0) offby discrepancy detected: MAX vs1
group(0) offby discrepancy detected: MAX vs1
group..........."

I notice that your command was "off_by" but the ALL.sfz file says "offby" however, I have tried adding the underscore but it still doesn't work. No doubt I am missing something totally obvious but I've never used a text editor to build instruments before so I don't know where to start trying to track it down.

Any ideas?

I take it I am supposed to load All.sfz into sforzando and not actually load each individual file e.g. kick.sfz and snare.fsz etc ?
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