The only other piece of info that might be useful here is that all of the missing samples are formatted with a suffix, in the following odd way: "Long Medium A 5 render 001-[3].wav" or "Long Medium B 4 render 006-[2].wav".

I have no idea where "-[2]" comes from. None of my naming conventions include that. Instead, all samples are just "Long Medium C3 render 003". With "render 003" being added by Kontakt or Reaper when each master wav is sliced breaking it into its individual repetition.

Hi comma,

Are you dragging the files directly from Reaper to Kontakt? I'm willing to bet this is your problem and its actually Reaper killing the files itself (I've had this happen before).

I know its a nice workflow and it saves a lot of time - but you would be much better off bouncing the files out of Reaper in to your own directory (with your own naming convention and directory structure) before importing them in to Kontakt.

This will help with a few things:

1) You will know what the file is supposed to be named (Reaper is probably appending numbers the the name of the file for some sort of internal book keeping or to deal with multiple files with the same name).

2) You will know exactly where the file is supposed to be if Kontakt decides it doesn't exist anymore.

3) By using the OS file browser to bring stuff in to Kontakt you will eliminate Reaper from the equation. This way, if it really is Kontakt erasing the file, you have more evidence.

Basically, just because Reaper allows you to drag the files around - don't assume that they had the workflow you're using in mind. You might be trying to use that feature in a way they haven't thought of and can't currently deal with!

I hope this post was helpful
-mrtlikesrobots

Are you editing the samples within Kontakt's own wave editor? If so, BIG mistake!

So...

You have "MyBigSampleC3.wav" assigned to (say) C3). Fine. Then you tweak it in Kontakt's wave editor and save it and it will create "MyBigSampleC3-[1].wav" (to distinguish it from the original "MyBigSampleC3.wav" you created). Depending on how you then save that NKI can determine whether or not it will find the -[1] variation or not when you try to subsequently load it. Hence, maybe, your 'lost samples' (but I'll bet they're all there ... somewhere)!

I am not quite sure (from your description) of exactly how you're working but I am with Mr Dragon - get it sorted at source, standalone, and make sure it all works there and once it's working reliably there, it should work elsewhere as a plug-in.

As for my other reply, I assumed you were referring to libraries you'd bought, whatever. My mistake but the principles still apply.

Cheers,


Stephen

Yes, I also agree, do NOT use Kontakt's Wave Editor (the [<number>] suffix tells me that you've used it) for editing samples. Use anything else, Audacity, Wavosaur, Wavelab, whatever, for editing samples. NOT Kontakt's own destructive wave editor!

Thank you for all of the great replies! I greatly appreciate it. You are all very generous with your time and knowledge!

My work flow has been to record the one notes multiple repetitions in Reaper. For example, I then have one .wav file in Reaper that may have 8 C3's on it. I do a rough slice to that .wav in reaper to separate each repetition into its own file. I then drag (alt + ctrl) into Kontakt, where I map every sample by ear. I then go back through and adjust the start time in the Kontakt wave editor to get the start and ending exactly where I want. In the process, I save patch and samples multiple times, and each time I save it I pick the sub-directory folder on my desktop to help ease finding the patches and samples.


Hollow Sun, if you would be so kind to elaborate on this... "Depending on how you then save that NKI can determine whether or not it will find the -[1] variation or not when you try to subsequently load it. Hence, maybe, your 'lost samples' (but I'll bet they're all there ... somewhere)!"

I can't really because I don't use Kontakt's wave editor for the reasons stated and on the odd few occasions I have used it in the past, it plays up ... so I now never use it.

What I do is record the samples, slice 'em up and trim, edit, loop, normalise and whatever else in DSP Quattro and only when all the samples are done do I start bunging them at Kontakt (*) and I NEVER edit them or even tweak them in Kontakt's editor because it breaks things!!

(*) I might bung in the raw, unedited samples quickly to check that it's (kind of) ok and assuming it is, then I start the editing process.

I don't know Reaper or what it's like as an editor but it would be worth having a look at AUDACITY - free wave editor, Mac and PC and very handy to have a round.

Cheers,


Stephen

Thank you Stephen. I just ran across this: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?p=101 3659 . Which means those of you who point to the Wave editor are probably right as I have a feeling that is the issue. (Though, I haven't yet finished enough coffee to go experiment with it).

It is a rather shocking idea that in a "sampler", using the wave editor destroys samples. That seems like a pretty ginormous bug to me. The whole thing is worse given the attitude of the tech support people... . I'll post if I can duplicate this.

Thanks very much. You all are awesome. Oh, and Stephen, any plans to make your CP 70 compatible for Kontakt 4.2?

Well, maybe NI know that most people don't use Kontakt's own sample editor (apart from being destructive, it's very clunky, slow, limited and I find it pretty much unusable ... especially compared with something like DSP Quattro ... or even the free Audacity!) so maybe fixing/improving it is not a priority for NI ... which I can kind of understand (coming from a manufacturing and development background).

There's a lot missing from Kontakt that even the humble S900 and S1000 had back in the 80s - the damned thing can't even 'sample' FFS - and it took a while for me to get used to it after the relative simplicity of the Akai samplers. But that aside, what you can do with samples once you've got them in there is pretty astonishing especially with the scripting. The fact that I can 'design' my own Music Lab Machines and configure the voice architecture pretty much as I want it is testament to that, I think - I couldn't do that on any other sampler (with the exception of the new Mach V perhaps). And Kontakt has such a wide user base.


Ermmm ... it IS compatible with K4.2.x! Or do you mean tart up the GUI with fancier graphics?


Cheers,


Stephen

When you drag samples from Reaper, what happens to the source data? Reaper isn't intended to be an audio editor, is it? If the Reaper project later eliminates these audio bits (the ones you've dragged into Kontakt), because you're done editing them, what happens when you save the Reaper project? What happens to audio recorded in Reaper when the project isn't saved?

When I send samples out of Sonar for fine editing in Sound Forge, the files are temporary creations that Sonar re-imports after the editing has been completed (it recognizes the changed state of the temporary file and imports it into the project in place of the original version already present). With such a workflow, I imagine it would be very unreliable to use Sonar as an audio editor for another tool (besides the fact that it has almost no actual audio editing functions, the file handling is not intended for permanence).

As others have suggested, run Kontakt standalone and use a standalone editor for your audio. If you really prefer to use Reaper for recording and editing, don't drag and drop your audio. Save clips of audio from Reaper and load them into Kontakt.

PS: a lot of "user error" is actually the result of software providing features that users discover novel ways to use but which aren't the intended uses. It's not so much that the user is wrong as the user has made use of what's available and the tools have failed to guide the user toward preferred workflows (or warn against anything unintended). This is a normal act of computing. Any tech support that gives out bad attitudes, instead of sincerely instructing the user on the intended workflow, basically deserves to be brutally slammed as poor service. This too (lousy support attitudes) is very common in computing. It won't change until it costs them (& many companies never actually realize they exist for their customers).

Thank you, Stephen, for the warning about Kontakt's wave editor. I've never used it, simply because I am more comfortable with Adobe Audition. But now, because of this thread, I know something I didn't know before and forewarned is forearmed. I visit KVR almost daily but it's not every day I actually learn something useful here. So thanks again.

I've managed to reproduce the results twice now. In the wave editor, going over to "sample editor" and making a change (I used "fade out") adds the "-[2]" to the end of the sample name. Saving and reloading the instrument gives you the "missing samples" prompt. (Though I think the sample may still be there it just no longer has "-[2]" connected with the name.... not 100% on this part of it). Also, like the Native Instruments support post I linked to, you can watch the file folder and as soon as you close Reaper the files with "-[2]" disappear.

I guess I don't quite understand the point of buying and using a wave editor (especially when Kontakt has one and you have Reaper) but I'll have to investigate more and for the time being I'll try audacity and waveosaur to see what I've been missing.

Stephen, on your product page under CP 70 it says Kontakt 3.5. I presumed that meant compatible up to 3.5, perhaps it is compatible back to 3.5? Either way, I was confused. I'm glad it's compatible with 4.2 cause it sounds awesome!

Again, thanks for everybody's help!

Apologies for the forum litter but, when given the "missing samples" prompt one can go in and click the file name, however that file name will no longer have "-[2]" at the end of it. This will load the missing sample... without the edits that were made in "sample editor." So in my previous example, it will load the sample but without the "fade out." Which means, that at least it isn't a total washout... Just fyi.

I would suggest NOT doing drag&drop from Reaper to Kontakt. Render your files in Reaper, then load those rendered samples from Kontakt's browser to its mapping editor.

Do not use destructive Wave Editor functions in Kontakt, they seem to mess with sample references somehow. If you need a fade in/out, use a zone envelope.

do you have Kontakt set to follow a relative (vs absolute) path [for the samples]?