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Essentially, what a compressor does is turn down the volume when the sound going through it is above the level set by the threshold - the ratio controls how much the volume is reduced. The attack time is how long it takes to go from full volume to the reduced volume once the threshold is crossed, and the release is how long it takes to go back. It doesn't so much kick in after the attack, it's more like a knob taking x ms to turn, where x is the attack (or release) time, like the attack & release of a synth envelope.
It's generally not considered good practice to use a compressor to control such major changes between large sections of a track like you're wanting to do, because what you'll end up with is one section completely squashed, while the other is barely touched. You might get the maximum volume to be the same, but the dynamics of the louder section will be completely different from that of the quieter one. You would have the same problem with a sustaining sound too, it just might not be as noticeable, depending. Basically, a compressor is best at controlling dynamic range (which is just a fancy term for changes in volume) over short periods of time - like the attack vs. sustain/body of drums, or plosives and other "bumps" in a vocal, or peaks in a submix, etc. They certainly can be used over larger chunks of time, but if you try it, you'll see how it gets pretty noticeable with large differences in volume. If you were talking about a track with some hits that vary by a few dB too much here & there, that would be different. Then you could set it to basically only really affect the louder hits, and though it might still be somewhat noticeable, it might not be a problem. Hope that makes sense... really the best way to get your head around it is to play around, like quintosardo said. |
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| ^ | Joined: 17 May 2002 Member: #2797 Location: up on Cripple Creek (CO) | ||
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I've found that most of the times it's easier to work with a transient designer than a compressor on kicks and snares.
For example leave the kick as it is for the verse and boost the attack a little with a transient designer over the chorus to make it stand out when the rest of the music gets louder. I usually use Cubase's EnvelopeShaper which let's you set what you consider to be the length of the attack portion of the sound, so with a fast attack boost you make the kick sound clicky but if you raise the attack time you also get more of the kick's thump. |
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| ^ | Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Member: #19410 Location: Athens, Greece | ||
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When you are working with recordings, most of the time it is necessary to "ride the fader". The dynamics of the chunks of the song need to leveled appropriately before compression. When this dynamic is set (or removed) the compressor will behave better. You could also automate the threshold and make up gain in tandem, as this would be the same effect as riding the fader pre.
When the signal pushes up above the threshold too far compared to another portion of the song, the release time might affect the attack envelope of the next transient. As a result the following transient becomes repressed. Some compressors handle this problem differently, so it is a good idea to try more than one to see what sounds best. In general, when you want to add slope to a sound (fast attack), or taper down the average peak level (slow attack), a downward compressor is the best option. For other tasks, more sophisticated compressors or different type dynamics processors are usually required. Expanders do the opposite of compressors and lower beneath the threshold. Like the compressor, they also suffer from release time spill and some are better than others. They usually make a sound appear softer, while a compressor makes it harder. Limiters are the same thing as compressors, only specialized for very fast attacks and releases, and are usually transparent sounding unless intended otherwise. But nothing except a gain knob is going to boost 10dB and maintain the same dynamic level and shape. So, you need to stop worrying about compression and use gain to fix your low levels. ----  |
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| ^ | Joined: 16 Feb 2005 Member: #58183 | ||
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backsliders wrote: Well, it would sound fine, except the transient cuts through no matter what (even if I set the attack at 3ms instead of 30ms), and the resulting difference between the quiet and loud parts is still 8-10 db. So in conclusion, the compressor has done nothing more than compress the ring of the kick only, which was hardly audible anyway in a dense mix, and the kick's dynamics has not been smoothed at all.
Well, you'd better use a clipper or some other kind of distortion plugin in this case. However, if you insist on using compressor then, for example, Ableton Live's compressor has lookahead feature. It delays input audio so that the compressor could react to it properly. You can set lookahead up to 10 ms. ---- Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself. re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud |
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| ^ | Joined: 30 Aug 2011 Member: #263755 Location: Somewhere in universe | ||
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A few things to add here:
1) If you want to understand compression a bit more, or learn the basics, read this tutorial http://rocksuresoundz.com/2012/03/12/understanding-compresso rs/ 2) If I was going to use two compressors chained together I would place the one doing the limiting FIRST, and the compressing one second. For example set no1 at a high threshold so it only catches peaks and oesn't slam the whole thing. Ratio set high and attck to very quick. The second one has a lower threshold, lower ration and slower attack time. 3) Use a transient shaper like SPL transient designer. 4) Do fader automation on the track for loud and quiet parts of the song if necessary. |
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| ^ | Joined: 15 Dec 2011 Member: #270794 Location: New Zealand | ||
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Compressors were not designed to fix this. As some have said: Ride the volume fader. ---- I run a netlabel http://oligopolistrecords.bandcamp.com Free chill, hip-hop, lo-fi, ambient, experimental, for you! (Send me demos too!) |
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| ^ | Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Member: #205576 Location: portland oregon | ||
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Quote: Well, it would sound fine, except the transient cuts through no matter what (even if I set the attack at 3ms instead of 30ms), and the resulting difference between the quiet and loud parts is still 8-10 db. So in conclusion, the compressor has done nothing more than compress the ring of the kick only, which was hardly audible anyway in a dense mix, and the kick's dynamics has not been smoothed at all.
You're right. If you have an attack time of 10ms then you will hear 10 ms of transient before the sound is compressed. One way to solve this is as Andy said to split up all the sounds and adjust each sound. A good sampler will allow you to adjust the attack on the sample. So, if you increase the sample's attack to above 10ms, you won't get any of the transient that is not compressed. But, I think that Ableton's compressor doesn't have this problem because it has a lookahead of 10ms anyway. If you have a look, there is an option to select either 1ms or 10ms lookahead. I'm not sure how other compressors work because I'm not sure if they are able to have a lookahead or not but try it out. I guess that the way Ableton works is that there is a slight delay when you press play so that it can catch stuff before it happens. Of course, an analog compressor could not do this. I think this thread is making something simple in to something complicated. |
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| ^ | Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Member: #262305 | ||
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Ever thought to ride the fader ? Make some automation ? |
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| ^ | Joined: 29 Dec 2008 Member: #197040 Location: Lithuania | ||
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Correction on my post. I'm not exactly sure, but I think to avoid the loud transient at the start, you will need to set the lookahead to 0ms. I think that will stop any click at the start of the transient. |
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| ^ | Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Member: #262305 | ||
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backsliders wrote: Alright so after all these years, I'm still very confused by compressors. If I were to say something like:
"I like how the (acoustic) kick sounds. The eq is fine, but at the loud part of the song (when trying to emphisize playing a little harder) the kick drum is peaking at -10db, and during the main part of the song it's peaking around -20db. Now as one would expect, if I were to want the kick drum to still be audible during the main part of the song and cut through the bass at all with even a mild "thump", I would need the quiet and heavy parts to have a difference of maybe 2 to 3 db rather than 8 to 10 db. How would I do this?" I'd imagine the first response would be: "You're looking for compression. Lets see... ah, 20-30ms of attack would be nice since you don't want it too fast, lest you'll be getting more of a click than a thump. 150-200ms release sounds fine here... let's adjust the threshold to around the average range of your lowest hits of the main part of the song, --18db or -19db. And we'll use 4 or 5:1 ratio to smooth out the dynamics appropriately, and you can use the make-up gain to get it back up to the -10 db. There! How does that sound?" Well, it would sound fine, except the transient cuts through no matter what (even if I set the attack at 3ms instead of 30ms), and the resulting difference between the quiet and loud parts is still 8-10 db. So in conclusion, the compressor has done nothing more than compress the ring of the kick only, which was hardly audible anyway in a dense mix, and the kick's dynamics has not been smoothed at all. The next respose from someone would be, "Lololololnoob. You just need a limiter or twenty. That way, the performace is completely ruined and your dynamics are level! Problem solved." I assume I am missing something, and have been for years. Please, by all means, school and embarass me. As long as I can do this correctly, I do not mind being wrong as many times over as it takes. i would just automate the volume fader, up 7 db in the quiet part or down 7 in the hot part |
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| ^ | Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Member: #9550 Location: Saint-Clin-Clin-Des-Meu-Meu |
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