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Zero Delay Feedback Filter (How to test if your synth has a )- Xils-Lab White Paper -
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mystran
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:14 am reply with quote
mkdr wrote:
Who invented the zero delay feedback filters?
Is the data of implementing them publicized somewhere?


As far as I know original credit would go for Vadim Zavalishin.

For implementing them, just look at the currently on-going discussion on the DSP development section of the forum. Razz
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carrieres
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:40 am reply with quote
Vadim is from Native Instrument, so where his techno has been implemented, in Massive ?
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Z1202
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:36 am reply with quote
mystran wrote:
mkdr wrote:
Who invented the zero delay feedback filters?
Is the data of implementing them publicized somewhere?


As far as I know original credit would go for Vadim Zavalishin.
This is not really correct. There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine Smile ). Even Oppenheim and Schafer mention IIRC (and quickly discard) this possibility. However I believe to have described probably the most full and systematic application of this idea (please correct me, if I'm wrong Smile ).

Edit: that's why I prefer the term TPT (topology-preserving transform). Zero-delay feedback is just one (probably the most important) aspect of it.

Regards,
Vadim
Last edited by Z1202 on Mon May 21, 2012 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ingonator
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:51 am reply with quote
mystran wrote:
mkdr wrote:
Who invented the zero delay feedback filters?
Is the data of implementing them publicized somewhere?


As far as I know original credit would go for Vadim Zavalishin.

For implementing them, just look at the currently on-going discussion on the DSP development section of the forum. Razz

There is a Reaktor core tutorial here:

http://www.native-instruments.com/fileadmin/ni_media/downloa ds/pdf/KeepTopologyRC.pdf

http://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&ty pe=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=7769

http://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&ty pe=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=7775


Ingo
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mystran
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:48 am reply with quote
Z1202 wrote:
mystran wrote:
mkdr wrote:
Who invented the zero delay feedback filters?
Is the data of implementing them publicized somewhere?


As far as I know original credit would go for Vadim Zavalishin.
This is not really correct. There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine Smile ). Even Oppenheim and Schafer mention IIRC (and quickly discard) this possibility. However I believe to have described probably the most full and systematic application of this idea (please correct me, if I'm wrong Smile ).

Edit: that's why I prefer the term TPT (topology-preserving transform). Zero-delay feedback is just one (probably the most important) aspect of it.


Fair enough. One could argue even wave digital filters are pretty much the same concept. As far as TPT, yes I think it's a better term. Razz

Like I pointed out in the other thread, I think the big deal isn't getting rid of some delays, but instead the fact that you can forget the concept of directional signal flow and treat everything as a bunch of simultaneous differential equations.
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pdxindy
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:56 am reply with quote
Cyforce wrote:

Maybe it would be better instead of trying to expand the quality limit more and more and more with new ideas/codes/methods etc, to expand the effectivity?
What we have from synths which sounding superb, but we couldn't use them as we would like to?....



It is not either or... I am glad some developers focus on maximum sound quality. And others are focused elsewhere.
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Howard
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:18 am reply with quote
Congratulations to Lotuzia and Urs for making peace Thumbs Up!
BTW: I, for one, was pleasantly surprised at the tone of Lotuzia's last post! Smile
Last edited by Howard on Mon May 21, 2012 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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xh3rv
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:21 pm reply with quote
Smack - for you guys
D'oh! - for me
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Nielzie
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:25 pm reply with quote
A little too much of a thread derailment perhaps?
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Meffy
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:32 pm reply with quote
[Note: xherv's and Nielzie's comments above refer to posts that I have moved.]

Nielzie wrote:
A little too much of a thread derailment perhaps?

Not any more. Split. Again.

Since splits aren't working, a warning: Mods do have another method of dealing with such stuff besides locking and splitting threads. Much as I dislike it, next time that kind of garbage happens I will use it. I'll feel bad for doing so, but one more drop in the bucket won't be much of a deal.

Do everyone a favor:



Not my license plate; saw it this morning at the river.
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Ingonator
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:01 pm reply with quote
Z1202 wrote:
There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine Smile ).

Do you talk about this ZDF?

http://www.zdf.de/

That one is already 49 years old...

Laughing


Ingo
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Cyforce
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:19 pm reply with quote
Ingonator wrote:
Z1202 wrote:
There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine Smile ).

Do you talk about this ZDF?

http://www.zdf.de/

That one is already 49 years old...

Laughing


Ingo


ZDF Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Fritze
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:42 pm reply with quote
Ingonator wrote:
Z1202 wrote:
There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine Smile ).

Do you talk about this ZDF?

http://www.zdf.de/

That one is already 49 years old...

Laughing


Ingo


Laughing
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Z1202
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:56 pm reply with quote
Ingonator wrote:
Z1202 wrote:
There have been numerous other papers on ZDF written earlier (although I wasn't aware of them at the time of writing mine Smile ).

Do you talk about this ZDF?

http://www.zdf.de/

That one is already 49 years old...

Laughing


Ingo
I guess that's why TPT is probably a better term Razz
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Albert.VST
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 4:33 am reply with quote
Ingonator wrote:
Do you talk about this ZDF?

http://www.zdf.de/

That one is already 49 years old...

Laughing


Ingo


And they are absolutely not 0 delay. I would say they are notorious about the delay they cause (and don't ask me how I know).....
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