Anyone know whats up with this? I just came across this topic

"Live + 3rd party plugins = FAIL"

I was unaware of this stuff. Will have to read the rest of the thread for 2 hours... lol. does the 64 bit beta fix this? I have been waiting for the full version..to try it.

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=157048

From the thread. is this true?

"Lies from the manual:
16.5 Device Delay Compensation
"The compensation algorithm keeps all of Live's tracks in sync, regardless of what their devices are doing".


More countless hours wasted troubleshooting this bugfest... I've been trying to figure out why my production is not sounding as tight as it should (the music I write is has a pretty quick tempo and relies heavily on gating and LFOs). Now I know why.


Try this if you like:

1. Create two audio tracks.
2. Place the same sample on both.
3. On one track insert any of Live's effects that rely on internal timing eg. Beat Repeat or an effect with an LFO such as Autopan and Autofilter (make sure the LFO is on).
5. Now copy this effect to the other track.
6. Insert Live's utility on one track and reverse the phase.

The tracks will phase cancel resulting in silence. This is expected of course.

7. Now, on one track insert any third party plugin of your choice in front of Live's effect. Make sure you turn the plugin off so it's not affecting the signal. Your signal flow should look like this:
Track 1: Beat Repeat
Track 2: 3rd party plug -> Beat Repeat -> Utility

If Device Delay Compensation works the tracks should still phase cancel right? Wrong. In fact the more third party plugins you insert in front of Live's effects the worst the timing gets. Try duplicating the plugin (or adding other plugins) and you'll see what I mean:
Track 1: Beat Repeat
Track 2: 3rd party plug -> 3rd party plug -> 3rd party plug -> Beat Repeat -> Utility


The problem isn't specific to Live's effects either. It's just easy to use them to demonstrate the problem. If you're using any effects that have gates or LFO's, and they're not first in the signal chain then they're not going to be in time. Add this to the fact that your automation isn't delay compensated and the result is a f**king train wreck.

I reported this bug 13 months ago (Ableton confirmed it) but I thought it was a problem specific to 3rd party gating plugins only (in my case CamelSpace). Now it appears that there's actually a major flaw.

I'd like to know if the problem exists on PC's if anyone would care to try.


So... Ableton,

Are you planning on having this fixed in the next release?

Gerhard stated "We have now decided to suspend all development towards new features while the whole team joins forces to address the current issues." Is this still the case? I've seen this question raised a few times on the forum and it's been ignored by Ableton. It makes me wonder that you consider L8 to be free enough of bugs that you've started working on new features. I consider it not fixed. I'd like to know where you're at with it.



23/01/11 Update

The issue has been confirmed by Ableton. It affects all users. Whether it's significant enough to be noticeable in your production depends on which plugins you use and how you order them.

If you'd like to read Ableton's comment and my response please turn to page 9."

The thread started in 2011 and is still going.

I'm also upset that I have to move microphones around BY HAND to keep phase alignment when I do multi-mic recordings!!! Why isn't this done automagically?! ARGH!

Seriously though... This isn't a big concern for me. I don't consider sample accurate PDC to be a high priority. Maybe my music just isn't "tight" or demanding enough to really expose the problems with Live's PDC. Luckily, Live makes it really easy to manually align stuff.

I'm not saying that it isn't a problem for other people. Just not a problem for me.

live's pdc is completely broken. It works as far as syncing the music, but will throw all automation out of time, it does not compensate automation, nor visual playback.

Furthermore, if you say insert a plugin with delay on track 1, and then have an instrument even on track 10 that is not in the same signal path, there is latency of that plugins value when you play your midi keyboard live. Add more in a chain and problem is compounded.

It's serious and almost ruins a lovely piece of software.

ps what i have learned to do is turn off delay compensation in the menu, and use plugins that have zero delay or *very* minimal tiny delay.. on drum tracks, i will only use without exceptions plugins with zero delay. On vocals or synths i am ok to use plugins with up to say 3 or 4 ms of delay as that won't really be noticed in playback that it's not compensating.

The result? all the automation from other tracks etc stays in sync.

Linear phase eq's and stuff though, just forget it in live.. it's WAY too much of a hassle.

Great.....................

sorry mate i have been battling this for over two years on and off. it sucks...

Seeing ableton release a 64 bit version gives me hope that they are onto what their userbase want and WILL fix this....

i always said, if ableton had multiple midi track note editing in one piano roll, and the pdc fixed, rewires with reaper, there is no better overall combo on the planet... ableton's flex time is the best sounding of any..

it makes reason/record's time stretch sound like a bad joke from the 80's

what plugins do you use when using Live? does this (issue)include their own plugins??

So is it better to disable delay compensation if your using U-He synths, Soundtoys, Slate Digital plugs? Never noticed a problem till I read about it here.

very few now as i am mostly reason, the issue does include a few of their own.. I tested each one by one and made a list of what has delay and what doesn't.

p.s all the max for live stuff has latency even the midi plugins, it's a max 4 live thing.

so at this stage i use the built in EQ, zero latency, but you can use equality or Pro-Q in non linear mode also,

the built in comp with no lookahead, or something like the glue in zero oversample mode,

the in built gate has latency, so i've been testing the cheap toneboosters one which does the job

i am really sorry i did the test weeks ago before i went reason and i can't find the list.. pathetic i know.. i will have to do it all over again myself as i go along

I'm not disabling anything that is supposed to work in the first place...