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When is enough 'enough'?

Anything about MUSIC but doesn't fit into the forums above.

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KVRist
 
74 posts since 14 Oct, 2009, from UK

Postby StateMedia; Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:55 pm When is enough 'enough'?

Hmm. I'm having a think about what I have at my disposal, and it's made me wonder....just when is enough.....really enough.

I cleared out a LOT of stuff last year. A LiquidMix,RP Predator, Uhe Zebra2, Reason & ReCycle, Massive, some old Tannoy monitors, records I'd been given and hated. The aim being to just surround myself with a bare set of tools and music that I like as inspiration.

However......I've realised if anything I'm now worse off then I was this time last year and further away of my aims to keep it simple. When I think of what I've bought and then it sortof hits you....just how much you have to work with. For me...it's because I've ended up buying packages. Which sound like you have one product, but in truth you are getting many.

So...I've wound up with the following to play with

Logic 9
Reason 6 (again!)
Ableton Suite8

BBE Sonic Suite
CakeWalk Z3ta 2
Dcam Synth Squad
Dcam Etch
NI Komplete 8 Ultimate
NI Maschine

NI Traktor s2
Ni Traktor F1 (x 2)
Novation Launchpad
Novation Nocturn
Akai MPK 49.

At which point I'm like....WOW. Inside of what looks like a modest list is actually a lot of content.

So I ask everyone...think about what you have. Make a list like I've done....then ask. Just what else would you say you need desperately?

It would take me MONTHS if not a whole year to get through all I own in any sincere depth then what I know now. And that just feels so anti-productive. The scary thing is though....I'm not finished with things I desire. I still want Melodyne, the BX plugs, Arturia Collection etc...but I just feel greedy and stupid already !
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KVRAF
 
6678 posts since 20 Jul, 2004, from Boston
 

Postby djanthonyw; Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:03 pm

Been there, done that. Simply put, the biggest problem is having more than one DAW. Regardless of what anyone says, you only need one and is just silly to have more. All of the major ones do the same exact thing.

Take away the redundant DAWs, and install only what you can see yourself using from Komplete and I'd say you'll have yourself a pretty modest setup.
You are currently reading my signature.
KVRAF
 
40038 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:08 pm

When I get a host that does EVERYTHING then I'll have just one. I'm not Sheryl Crow.

My paypal account is SO BIG from all the vsts (yes, I said it.........VSTS!!!) and hosts and guitars and basses I've bought and sold (which doesn't include GC stuff or stuff I street sold there)......it's insane.

If you can afford it, and you want more, it's nobody's biznus :D But I certainly understand the "WTF, how did I get all this crap" mentality :lol:
KVRian
 
793 posts since 24 May, 2005, from PA, USA
 

Postby alexfalcao; Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:17 pm

For me, Zebra2 would be the last one to go, that would mean quiting doing music. I would buy it again.
KVRist
 
74 posts since 14 Oct, 2009, from UK

Postby StateMedia; Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:42 pm

I think Hibidy hit it on the head. When I find one host that does everything I want. Truth is that none of of them get more then say 60% there.

Logic...I rate most of the Instruments & Effects. The mixer layout as well. Audio to midi instrument is cool as well
Don't like having to try and play in the environment sometimes, lack of an easyily built in and usable arp. Dislike the built in time stretch, audio to midi score leaves a lot to be desired. Automation system is ok but a bit cumbersome.

Ableton. Like the workflow overall. Like the timestretch routines. Like the macro and device functions. Like most of the instruments but find the effects lacking. Miss a dedicated mixer page as well.

Reason. I have a proper love and hate relationship with. I do like everything about it, other then it still feels wayyy behind the times in areas related to the use of audio files rather then synthesis. The time stretch isn't upto much, the reliance on ReCycle is annoying and editing recordings in any detail isn't going to happen. As a synth and effects box, I rate it quite well. But for recording and editing audio...nah.

Maschine I'm struggling to get my head round. I like it, but's as I'm so used to having a limitless DAW..I see it as a corner of the puzzle rather then being my go to environment.

I should at this point mention that I have tried others over the years. I had Cubase but then got Logic. I was forced to learn ProTools and then the studio got rid of the entire system just after. I didn't like the feel of Reaper or Sonar..

Of the ones I have, Ableton is probably going to get closest to ideal. Even then...BitWig has come along and is now making me wonder how I Should go forward.

The thing that annoys me most though is that because of all of the above...I'm never quite completely happy. I can lay something down and then start thinking if it'd sound better on another synth, or if the next reverb is better suited etc...
KVRAF
 
40038 posts since 20 Dec, 2005

Postby hibidy; Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:50 pm

Some people get by with one. I can't. Don't feel like listing all of my problems (I don't feel like going through that and having someone accuse me of pirating like the other thread :x ) but some shit doesn't do what I want, some of it doesn't work, though I'm having fun with live currently.

Plugins, I mean vst's ( :hihi: ) are different. It's just too hard not to collect! They most certainly provide inspiration. I mean, most of what I've had works well. Recently, I got rid of a couple of plugs I didn't really want to just because I'm overloaded. Since I couldn't sell x, y or z, I had to sell "a" and just push myself to use those others. Everyone is diff.......
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KVRAF
 
8844 posts since 12 Mar, 2012, from South Bavaria - near the alps... :-)

Postby Tricky-Loops; Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:52 pm

StateMedia wrote:It would take me MONTHS if not a whole year to get through all I own in any sincere depth then what I know now. And that just feels so anti-productive. The scary thing is though....I'm not finished with things I desire. I still want Melodyne, the BX plugs, Arturia Collection etc...but I just feel greedy and stupid already !
You're human, too... :lol:
KVRian
 
925 posts since 7 Dec, 2005, from somewhere between analog and digital

Postby goldenanalog; Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:25 pm

It's all love/hate, good/bad, here.

I see the whole 'native' computer stuff as wrought with growing pains; we're all going to live on the bleeding edge for a while...

Got all these virtual instruments; then along comes LuSH-101-man, sounds great!

What kind of polyphony can I get out of it?

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

If my computer was, I don't know, maybe 10ghz/core, then plenty!

So: If I want to buy and really use Lush, I've got to upgrade my computer :cry:

You guys know what I'm talking about...

EDIT: If I was to list 'informus' all of the software that I own, I'd probably start thinking about all the $$$ that I've spent and suffer a nervous breakdown about half-way through the list. So please excuse me from listing my software-I want to remain comfortably sitting here in the land of ignorance, and denial.
KVRian
 
775 posts since 19 May, 2011, from North Carolina

Postby JoeCat; Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:58 pm

Just Komplete and Logic could keep someone busy for years...

I'm in the same boat, though I've limited my DAW to Live (and sometimes Renoise but just for tracker fun, not as an alternate).

i can never settle on one or two go-to synths - probably because the idea of purchasing 10-20 great instruments for the price of what my Arp Omni cost in '70s $ is too much to pass up. I think about the fact that Zimmer got by on Zebra alone for synthesis in the Dark Knight movies and realize it's ridiculous, but some of the instruments do have their own character, and even where sounds overlap you often arrive at it in different ways, which makes each one different in terms of creativity.

Forget effects - bought so much on sale (blast you AudioMidi), I don't know what to use.

There's a school of though in psychiatry/psychology that too much choice is counter-productive and makes us unhappy. I can see that. I remember watching a bedroom producer on one of the Future Music vids (forget who it was, but a a signed EDM artist). Most of his instrumentation was what he had in hardware, and he used limited effects in his DAW, etc. - a lot of these guys didn't start with much money. By being limited to a few tools, knowing them well, and knowing exactly what he wanted to achieve, you could see he had a great workflow. A 30 minute video of me working would consist of dragging stuff in and out of a track, tossing the project, then posting something like this on KVR...

I'm trying to produce with a very limited palette, but can't even choose that... :cry:
KVRian
 
925 posts since 7 Dec, 2005, from somewhere between analog and digital

Postby goldenanalog; Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:22 pm

JoeCat wrote:Just Komplete and Logic could keep someone busy for years...

I'm in the same boat, though I've limited my DAW to Live (and sometimes Renoise but just for tracker fun, not as an alternate).

i can never settle on one or two go-to synths - probably because the idea of purchasing 10-20 great instruments for the price of what my Arp Omni cost in '70s $ is too much to pass up. I think about the fact that Zimmer got by on Zebra alone for synthesis in the Dark Knight movies and realize it's ridiculous, but some of the instruments do have their own character, and even where sounds overlap you often arrive at it in different ways, which makes each one different in terms of creativity.

Forget effects - bought so much on sale (blast you AudioMidi), I don't know what to use.

There's a school of though in psychiatry/psychology that too much choice is counter-productive and makes us unhappy. I can see that. I remember watching a bedroom producer on one of the Future Music vids (forget who it was, but a a signed EDM artist). Most of his instrumentation was what he had in hardware, and he used limited effects in his DAW, etc. - a lot of these guys didn't start with much money. By being limited to a few tools, knowing them well, and knowing exactly what he wanted to achieve, you could see he had a great workflow. A 30 minute video of me working would consist of dragging stuff in and out of a track, tossing the project, then posting something like this on KVR...

I'm trying to produce with a very limited palette, but can't even choose that... :cry:


A lot of common sense there, JoeCat.

My problem is that I really really like the virtual instruments that I've bought (and many of the people that built them), which makes it almost impossible for me to let go of any of them; even though by just using the metric of time it would be a joke to try to use all of them in a single production...
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KVRAF
 
2830 posts since 29 Jun, 2011
   

Postby Aiynzahev; Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:39 pm

As long as you can remain somewhat emotionally detached from your gear this is no problem having loads of it.

I've wondered about a limited set-up but honestly more choices makes faster work-flow for me. I am a disorganized kind of guy and I figure that's just they way I am, may as well capitalize on it, so I have a lot of things available to me so I don't have to try to make a square sit in a circle.

No need to feel you have to be minimalist. I noticed a lot of pro's have tons of stuff, they may use most of it very little, but when they need it it's there.

When I made my first release I was amazed at just how many different synths I ended up using (just for example) I'd never thought about it before, but having different characters help to create different "areas" in the mix, helps things be more distinct. It's much easier to do with this synths that sound different from each other, I had trouble when I was trying to use the same synth for too many parts, so the more the better for me.

Same goes for effects, never tire of having a lot.

I have 2 daws and I use the strengths of each.

S1, fast, easy, simple: great sketch pad
Cubase, organized, logical, handles the CPU load better: great for bigger projects.

And I swap things around to different daws and do all kinds of things.
Aiynzahev-sounds
Resonance Sound
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Spire, Zebra2, Massive, DIVA, Sylenth and others
KVRian
 
939 posts since 26 Nov, 2005

Postby JJBiener; Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:48 pm

For someone who has a minimalist approach to music production,I must confess that I have a ridiculous number of plugins. But maybe it is not as contradictory as it seems. While I may have a lot of plugins (a lot more after the auction), I have very little overlap. I only have a couple of VA synths. I didn't rush out and buy Diva even though it was rumored to be the Holy Grail. I tried it and it did sound great, but when it came right down to it, it was just another VA. I have a couple of sampler/romplers. I have a couple of FM synths. A couple of additive synths. Mostly what I have are physically modeled synths and hybrids. Then I have a ton of effects.

After a couple of false starts, I had to figure out what I was doing with this stuff. What I realized was that I already lived through the 70's. And the 80's. And the 90's and the 2000's. The last thing I want to do is recreate them in my computer. I understand nostalgia and wanting to recreate one's childhood. What I wanted for myself was to move forward. While Diva and Lush 101 and the Arturia synths and all the rest do an excellent job of recreating the past, I don't see them as the future. It doesn't matter how good they sound or how accurately they recreate specific hardware if my focus doesn't include that.

So my answer was to look for things that could really be pushed to extremes and into new territory. I think the AAS synths are great for that. Chromaphone for example is capable of creating sounds no other synth can touch. It can produce great weirdness while still being musical. Not an easy task. I picked up CrX4 and MorphoX from LinPlug in the auction, and while I haven't had time to fully plumb their depths, they seem to have the potential to really spark my creativity. I finally bought Camel Audio's Alchemy for several reasons. First, I love its sound. Second, it really seems like a Swiss Army knife for sound creation. I bought Wusik Station because I got a great deal and it came with an absolute ton of sounds. I bought Kontakt because there are some small developers like Hollow Sun that produce absolutely brilliant instruments for it. I also have quite a collection of freebies that are always good for inspiration when I want something offbeat.

To go with these wonderful and bizarre instruments, I have a host of delays, choruses, distortions, compressors, limiters, EQ's, filters, granualizers, saturation effects, spectrum effects and some that defy easy categorization. These fall into both the free and paid realms. Again, I don't have recreations of vintage gear. I have a tropism for effects that don't do what other plugins do. I have been consistently amazed at what so many of the low priced and free effects are capable of. I find myself with a plethora of options.

I do have only one DAW. I agree with the person above who said, How many do you really need? Well, one is more than enough. I use Sonar Essentials X2. I don't exaggerate when I say I don't use 1/10 of its ability. What would I do with something else.

These decisions I've made are because they feed into my musical desires. I want to create new and unusual sounds that are still musical. All of my decisions for the last year have been with that goal in my mind.

If you have made it this far in my monologue, I would ask you if you have a defined vision in your mind for the music you want to create. Do you make purchases with that vision in mind. If you are true to your vision, it doesn't matter if you have two plugins or two hundred or two thousand. If you don't have a vision, no number of plugins will suffice.

Create your music and enjoy the process.

JJ
This space has been unintentionally left blank.
KVRist
 
148 posts since 18 Jun, 2010

Postby andrelafosse; Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:02 pm

JJBiener wrote:I would ask you if you have a defined vision in your mind for the music you want to create. Do you make purchases with that vision in mind. If you are true to your vision, it doesn't matter if you have two plugins or two hundred or two thousand. If you don't have a vision, no number of plugins will suffice.

Create your music and enjoy the process.


IV-I :clap:
KVRist
 
138 posts since 22 May, 2010

Postby Bhan; Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:06 pm

Enough is enough : When you awake to realize that you're playing at music...instead of playing music.
KVRist
 
305 posts since 18 Apr, 2011

Postby stillshaded; Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:41 pm

I've messed around with a ton of plugins and DAWs, but I definitely think it was a waste of time and energy.



As some one who synthesizes everything from scratch, I'll tell you one of the biggest reasons to not change things up is that you will accumulate a lot of patches that you like. I think about all the great patches that I saved in ableton or logic that im not going to use because I'm too lazy to go and fire em up and save them as .fxp files so I can load them in Fl Studio or S1 (longest sentence evar).

but yea, then there's the whole issue of muscle memory. Somtimes I have to cycle through shortcuts from 3 different daws before i remember the one for the current daw I'm using. lol

BUT I will say that I'm very happy that I experimented to find out which programs work the best for me. Just think I could've figured it out a little quicker.
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