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Good envelopes

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
694 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:47 am Good envelopes

Apart from snapiness - what is essential or nice to have for envelopes, any unique and/or inspiring(analog or digital) ones out there?

Personally - not into the "draw your own" types. The envelopes of the roland d50 looks interistings - anybody play with those? Keytracking A/D/S times seems interisting.

Andrew
Last edited by Ichad.c on Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Urs
u-he
 
17347 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:51 am

I like the Minimoog ones in the filter section which raise to a higher maximum level when triggered quickly.
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ZenPunkHippy
KVRAF
 
10436 posts since 18 Jun, 2008, from Melbourne, Australia

Postby ZenPunkHippy; Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:52 am

Curves - preferably done by (self) modulating the envelopes so that the rate of change can be controlled by the user.

Peace,
Andy.
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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
694 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:58 am

ZenPunkHippy wrote:Curves - preferably done by (self) modulating the envelopes so that the rate of change can be controlled by the user.

Peace,
Andy.


In layman's terms?
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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
694 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:13 am

Urs wrote:I like the Minimoog ones in the filter section which raise to a higher maximum level when triggered quickly.


The moog also holds/clips the top apparently.
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robojam
KVRAF
 
20960 posts since 26 Jul, 2005, from Inside Schroedinger's Cat...or am I...

Postby robojam; Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:19 am

Glue that sticks well after you lick it, and nice thick paper so you can't see what's inside once it's been sealed.

Sorry, someone had to do it...

:hihi:
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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
694 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:23 am

The minimoog envelopes - are pretty insane.

http://analog.no/cms/index.php/envelopes

Anything else that goes beyond the ADSR - but still practical?
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Numanoid
KVRAF
 
9038 posts since 20 Jan, 2008, from Down on the farm

Postby Numanoid; Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:05 pm

None of these though, watch out for cheap envelopes, they can be poisonous :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt8E_27iyOk
PAK
KVRist
 
490 posts since 19 Feb, 2003

Postby PAK; Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:08 pm

Beyond a basic ADSR it's really just about control of the shape or inserting more points.. ie stuff like an AHDSR or an ADSAR, where the attack will trigger again when you release the sustain.

Software's perfectly suited for this stuff, since you can create an envelope where the user can define spline points and, along with control of the curve shapes between the points (and where it sustains) you can make any envelope you want without too much difficulty.

In combination with layering it's possible to construct an entire song using only the envelopes, if it supports enough points and layers! You could get quite insane options, I suppose, if you actually made envelope points appear/disappear based on certain conditions defined in a mod-matrix or via key-tracking ;)

Emulations of known hardware envelopes are likely more tricky, since you have to take into account other interactions with other components like the VCA.

Plus it's becoming increasingly apparent that, unless TPT (Topology Preserving Transform) coding methods are used for envelopes then, just like filter feedback, there's always going to be a small (but noticeable) difference in the perception of snap/punch with software envelopes VS hardware.

In days gone by I used to think that was all about the shape of the envelope. But, like many things in life, it (apparently) isn't that simple :)
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Sendy
KVRAF
 
4452 posts since 20 Jul, 2010

Postby Sendy; Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:13 pm

Being able to adjust the curve of each section really helps IMO, especially in a synth with a lot of wild timbral possibilities, or cases such as phase distortion where a lot of the drastic timbral change happens at one concentrated point in the parameter space. Being able to toggle envelopes restarting vs envelopes jumping off from eachother is good too.
http://sendy.bandcamp.com/releases < My new album at Bandcamp!
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tehlord
KVRAF
 
6738 posts since 22 Sep, 2008, from Windsor. UK

Postby tehlord; Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:25 pm

Sendy wrote:Being able to adjust the curve of each section really helps IMO,



This, although when a dev names them the proper scientific names I get a bit irked.

I want pretty images to soothe my addled brain, not a maths lesson :hihi:
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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
694 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:06 pm

tehlord wrote:This, although when a dev names them the proper scientific names I get a bit irked.

I want pretty images to soothe my addled brain, not a maths lesson :hihi:


Good point.
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7501 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:01 pm

FM8 envelopes : Combine flexibility, ease of use, power.

Then anybody who did not try the trapezoidal Xils 3 enveloppes, or the DsyncAdsr of the Synthix or Oxium might have missed a nice experience. 8)
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets

77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
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Igro
KVRAF
 
3661 posts since 26 Apr, 2007, from Noosphere

Postby Igro; Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:03 pm

Perfectly done exponential decay and release. Some synths really lack it.
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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
694 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:54 pm

Lotuzia wrote: trapezoidal Xils 3 enveloppes


Correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't a trapezoidal generator - actuall just the gate signal? Or if you want to be fancy - an attack/hold/decay envelope?
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