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T-Racks CS . . . Some Good, Some Bad. My Rant.

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

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Brother Charles
KVRian
 
717 posts since 2 Jan, 2012, from Alberta, Canada

Postby Brother Charles; Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:51 am T-Racks CS . . . Some Good, Some Bad. My Rant.

Here's my personal take on the whole matter.

New CS versions of the plugins: Very Good. Nice, subtle improvements and 64 bit support. Custom Shop can be considered to be a convenient way to buy good quality amp sims and plugins.

The Bad: Very difficult to resell, unless you are willing to sell the "whole load". Fewer credits for your money than before the "Group Buy" and T-RackS CS release.

IKM sell great quality plugins. I'm not out to bash the company. There are a great many of us who use, enjoy, and depend on their products. However, I do want to honestly, and objectively, shed some light on their retail maneuvers.
Last edited by Brother Charles on Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
Thanks & God Bless,
Bro. Charles
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HM
KVRist
 
176 posts since 13 Aug, 2001, from DK

Postby HM; Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:09 am

Brother Charles wrote:The Bad: Very difficult to resell, unless you are willing to sell the "whole load".


Since the official representants refuses to answer these very fundamental
questions about reselling, I try to ask you insteadt, is it even possible
to sell the "whole load" ?? ,.. so far I just recieved the CS-Shell in my
user-area, but there is no field for "Licence Transfer" attached to it !!

Does the transfer-field appear ON the CS, when you put plugs in it ?

Both new plugs ? and old plugs ?

I still think they have to allow both singles and "whole load" to be sold
unrestricted in order to follow the EU-rules, at least, I don't think that
they cant "hide behind the shell" so to say, not in the customers interest
either, (but obviously in their own faviour).

As far as I know NI and Steinberg, (also EU based), are in tune with the
free transfer, but maybe someone can chime in with a more precise picture
of the legal matters
HM
User avatar
Peter - IK Multimedia
KVRAF
 
3856 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Postby Peter - IK Multimedia; Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:16 am

We only refuse to give a blanket statement that goes beyond our licensing agreement, legal section on our site, FAQ and offer clear contact methods if you have a question about transferring what you current own or have a question about what you are looking to purchase. Getting your request routed to the right people for your specific case/questions seems more than fair. Legal questions are not going to be debated by IK representatives on this forum. Seems pretty logical to me. We're "in tune" with transfers too, from what I know but I'm not a lawyer so again I welcome you to contact IK with your particular issue or question.
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Amon1973
KVRian
 
854 posts since 2 Sep, 2010, from EU

Postby Amon1973; Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:21 am

Brother Charles wrote:The Bad: Very difficult to resell, unless you are willing to sell the "whole load". Fewer credits for your money than before the "Group Buy" and T-RackS CS release.


No company allows to transfer single plug-ins that you have bought in a bundle (the only exception being DDMF to my knowledge). You buy a Single, can sell a Single (not bought via credits in the CS) - buy a Bundle, can sell a Bundle. Pretty straight-forward, as serials unlock a certain product and to a specific product are bound.

HM wrote:.. so far I just recieved the CS-Shell in my
user-area, but there is no field for "Licence Transfer" attached to it !!

Does the transfer-field appear ON the CS, when you put plugs in it ?

Both new plugs ? and old plugs ?


The CS shell is Free, thus you cannot transfer it, like Amplitube Free. Seems pretty natural to me.
I have those not-transferrable Free items in my User Area as well, but I can transfer AT Metal, Ampeg, CSR, T-Racks Deluxe, Upgrades, Crossgrades... any item you have purchased is transferrable, only the Free stuff isn't.

Hope that helps.
Last edited by Amon1973 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Guido Negraszus
KVRist
 
113 posts since 28 Jun, 2010, from Busselton, West Australia

Postby Guido Negraszus; Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:46 am

I really don't understand why so many people get upset over this. 3 days ago I did not have CSR 64-Bit and I also didn't own the metering suit which used to sell (if memory serves right) for $99.00. Sounds like a pretty good and fair deal to me. I own a lot of effect plugins but I really like the CSR effects. So from my point of view: Thanks IK!
Computer: Intel Xeon 3600 / HexaCore 3.20 GHz,24GB DDR3, Win7Pro,Akai MPK88, NI Komplete Audio 6

DAW: Studio One Profesional v2

Software: NI K9U, Omnisphere, Stylus RMX, EW Play, Alchemy, Korg, Zebra, MOTU BPM, Ethno, Nexus, Waves, Breeze
ostfront
Banned

Postby ostfront; Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:01 am

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
:dog:
:hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
:dog:
:hihi: :hihi: :hihi:
:dog:

:help:


:roll:
User avatar
lotus2035
KVRAF
 
3829 posts since 5 May, 2005, from Stockholm, Sweden

Postby lotus2035; Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:20 am

Save yourself the hassle of resale and eliminate those pesky license transfers by not buying the damn software in the first place.
VitaminD
Pick Me Pick me!
 
7704 posts since 11 Mar, 2002, from a state of confusion

Postby VitaminD; Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:22 am

Amon1973 wrote:
Brother Charles wrote:The Bad: Very difficult to resell, unless you are willing to sell the "whole load". Fewer credits for your money than before the "Group Buy" and T-RackS CS release.


No company allows to transfer single plug-ins that you have bought in a bundle (the only exception being DDMF to my knowledge). You buy a Single, can sell a Single - buy a Bundle, can sell a Bundle. Pretty straight-forward, as serials unlock a certain product and to a specific product are bound.

HM wrote:.. so far I just recieved the CS-Shell in my
user-area, but there is no field for "Licence Transfer" attached to it !!

Does the transfer-field appear ON the CS, when you put plugs in it ?

Both new plugs ? and old plugs ?


The CS shell is Free, thus you cannot transfer it, like Amplitube Free. Seems pretty natural to me.
I have those not-transferrable Free items in my User Area as well, but I can transfer AT Metal, Ampeg, CSR, T-Racks Deluxe, Upgrades, Crossgrades... any item you have purchased is transferrable, only the Free stuff isn't.

Hope that helps.



You cannot resell singles purchased from the Custom Shop as per response from Brian in the bigger thread (near the end - if you search you will find it).

you can buy the CS bundles.. and re-sell the CS bundles..
you can buy the CS singles.. but not re-sell the CS singles..
"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except the best." - Henry Van Dyke
Amon1973
KVRian
 
854 posts since 2 Sep, 2010, from EU

Postby Amon1973; Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:26 am

You cannot resell the Singles bought via credits in the CS - correct.
Like the AT CS gear.

You can sell the "old" Singles, though. I should have pointed out the difference myself, thanks.

Post corrected to reflect this.
Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
 
3722 posts since 15 Aug, 2006

Postby Funkybot's Evil Twin; Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:17 am

Amon1973 wrote:You cannot resell the Singles bought via credits in the CS - correct.
Like the AT CS gear.

You can sell the "old" Singles, though. I should have pointed out the difference myself, thanks.

Post corrected to reflect this.


How do you know this? In every thread/post I've read from an official IK representative, they went out of their way to not address this particular scenario. So have you gotten this information from IK themselves, or are you assuming that based on the AT Custom Shop, that any future T-Racks singles will not be able to be resold?
VitaminD
Pick Me Pick me!
 
7704 posts since 11 Mar, 2002, from a state of confusion

Postby VitaminD; Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:33 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Amon1973 wrote:You cannot resell the Singles bought via credits in the CS - correct.
Like the AT CS gear.

You can sell the "old" Singles, though. I should have pointed out the difference myself, thanks.

Post corrected to reflect this.


How do you know this? In every thread/post I've read from an official IK representative, they went out of their way to not address this particular scenario. So have you gotten this information from IK themselves, or are you assuming that based on the AT Custom Shop, that any future T-Racks singles will not be able to be resold?


As I mentioned in my post.. Brian stated such in one of his larger posts in the bigger thread. I'm not digging through to find it though.. but its closer to the end than the beginning.
"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except the best." - Henry Van Dyke
User avatar
Teksonik
KVRAF
 
8703 posts since 15 Sep, 2001, from Las Vegas,USA

Postby Teksonik; Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:41 am

So any word on the WinXp issue? As it stands I can't access my gear credits because my AT3 client is outdated. From what I've read some people were having problems with "Restore My Gear" in TRacks 3 CS on WinXp so I've held off installing anything for the moment until a fix is released.....

For the record I'm a huge IK fan as they've been very good to me both as a customer and in private so I'm not in the least bit upset. It's just that I love and use my TRacks 3 and CSR plugins so much and they are working perfectly now so I just don't want to take a chance of messing anything up...... :?
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Funkybot's Evil Twin
KVRAF
 
3722 posts since 15 Aug, 2006

Postby Funkybot's Evil Twin; Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:11 am

VitaminD wrote:
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:
Amon1973 wrote:You cannot resell the Singles bought via credits in the CS - correct.
Like the AT CS gear.

You can sell the "old" Singles, though. I should have pointed out the difference myself, thanks.

Post corrected to reflect this.


How do you know this? In every thread/post I've read from an official IK representative, they went out of their way to not address this particular scenario. So have you gotten this information from IK themselves, or are you assuming that based on the AT Custom Shop, that any future T-Racks singles will not be able to be resold?


As I mentioned in my post.. Brian stated such in one of his larger posts in the bigger thread. I'm not digging through to find it though.. but its closer to the end than the beginning.


I think I know which post you're talking about, and I read it, but I don't remember them discussing the transfer ability of singles/plugins bought directly from the Custom Shop. Anyway, I don't care at this point. I'm going to assume you guys are right and those would be non-transferable, and I won't be making any purchases from the Custom Shop until I know otherwise.

How should it work: any single/plugin I buy, be it from IK directly, the Custom Shop, or a third party retailer, should place a license in my account that I can transfer should I ever choose to. If I can't get that on Custom Shop purchases, then I simply won't make any Custom Shop purchases. There's a big difference between an $80 compressor and a $10 amp sim IMO, the two shouldn't be treated equally.
braj
KVRAF
 
6488 posts since 4 Feb, 2004

Postby braj; Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:59 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:How should it work: any single/plugin I buy, be it from IK directly, the Custom Shop, or a third party retailer, should place a license in my account that I can transfer should I ever choose to.


Totally agree with this.

BTW, I submitted a ticket for an install issue on Win 8, and the response was Win 8 isn't officially supported. While I understand this and actually got it installed just fine, it seems kind of dumb to me to not officially support the most current OS at launch.

I bought jam points before at full price, and I bought into the gear points group buy, I'm not going to buy any more from the store, it is not a very good deal considering they can't be resold. I don't feel inclined to buy any of the T-rackS stuff either since I won't get a good price even using my 4 for 1 credits vs. the bundle upgrade, so I'm just sitting on points and looking at the $150 to upgrade, and thinking I can spend that $150 elsewhere without so much uncertainty and hassle. So I think I'm done, though I really like the idea of the store it just is a crap investment. Thanks but no thanks, I'm moving on.
I have no talent, here's the proof:

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VitaminD
Pick Me Pick me!
 
7704 posts since 11 Mar, 2002, from a state of confusion

Postby VitaminD; Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:17 pm

Actually I stand corrected. Brian never covered this. No one officially from IKM has covered this. But it seems pretty apparent if looking at the Amplitube gear that the new T-Racks gear will be handled similarly.

For reference I was (inaccurately) going by this blurb:

Brian @ IK Multimedia wrote:I don't know exactly how selling a T-RackS CS Grand license that was obtained through an upgrade would go. But I can tell you this much - you would not be able to sell the processors individually.


But he is speaking of the inability to sell the singles from a bundle.. which seems obvious. I simply misread!

My apologies to Brian.
"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except the best." - Henry Van Dyke
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