What is KVR Audio? | Submit News | Advertise | Developer Account

Options (Affects News & Product results only):

OS:
Format:
Include:
Quick Search KVR

"Quick Search" KVR Audio's Product Database, News Items, Developer Listings, Forum Topics and videos here. For advanced Product Database searching please use the full product search. For the forum you can use the phpBB forum search.

To utilize the power of Google you can use the integrated Google Site Search.

Products 0

Developers 0

News 0

Forum 0

Videos 0

Search  

Pro Series: Vintage Keyboards

Official support for: u-he.com

Moderator: Urs

3ee
KVRAF
 
2708 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:45 pm Pro Series: Vintage Keyboards

Image


Vintage Keyboards is an attempt to accurately model some of the most popular and beloved electromechanical keyboards resulting in a clean and responsive blend, capturing more or less the good and "bad" magical essences that made the original models so famous.

The clean, unaltered direct signal was sought after as the main reference in creating these instruments giving you the capability to easily alter them with DSP however you like.

...
for more info and download link, check out:
http://3ee-sounddesign.blogspot.com/201 ... oards.html

Hope you enjoy! :)

Cheers"
3ee

added: Tips: adjust listening volume to feel natural, to be as loud as like you're next to the real instrument to get the best impressions of keyboard related velocity mods. also, find your favorite keyboard velocity curve, XY4 performance controls will help you fine-tune vel curve response.

tip2:
For a lush chorus effect, switch main osc(s) to dual mode and give a bit of detuning to taste.

added: forgot to mention and thank the nice people who helped beta test the instruments so, in no particular order:

Howard, hakey, Spitfire31, jdoo, hollo, (hopefully I didn't forgot anyone) + the nice KVR folks who checked out and shared their feedback.
Last edited by 3ee on Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:46 pm, edited 7 times in total.
pdxindy
KVRAF
 
8722 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:58 pm

Very nice sound! Good organic quality...
jPod
KVRist
 
226 posts since 22 Apr, 2004, from Vancouver

Postby jPod; Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:16 pm

FWIW I think it sounds excellent. The "hammer" tones are really good and the "tines" have a good body to them. One thing that could be tweaked is the high end which sounds really FM-y, particularly on the attack trasients. It's not bad, it just sounds more like a DX7.

I don't know about neo-soul, but maybe a midi file of "What'd I Say?" would be easier to find (and quite appropriate).
3ee
KVRAF
 
2708 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:23 pm

pdxindy wrote:Very nice sound! Good organic quality...

Hey, thanks for checking it out! :)

XMF is where the magic happens in this one.
Imagine the main oscs in a row and the hammer + tines on another.. and every time the key is hit, the hammer+tines "bites" the main sound via XMF xmod a bit.
That adds to the attack richness (progressively more noticeable with velocity, not really noticeable in this 1st clip)
mcnoone
KVRAF
 
5367 posts since 8 Oct, 2007, from an inharmonious society

Postby mcnoone; Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:25 pm

Sounds great to me.
Can't wait to hear some more.
Don't forget a clavinet.
3ee
KVRAF
 
2708 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:43 pm

jPod wrote:FWIW I think it sounds excellent. The "hammer" tones are really good and the "tines" have a good body to them. One thing that could be tweaked is the high end which sounds really FM-y, particularly on the attack trasients. It's not bad, it just sounds more like a DX7.

I don't know about neo-soul, but maybe a midi file of "What'd I Say?" would be easier to find (and quite appropriate).


Thanks for the feed,
the patch isn't based on FM synthesis in this case so it would be a bit hard for me to identify the "FM-y" hint to morph it into a more Rhody sound...
I'll see what I can do. but from what I understand, I'm afraid if gets even more FM-y with velocity atm :cry: .. time to compare it to the real thing.. which is harder to do if one doesn't have the real instrument...

Quick question... if you happen to have the LL4 vsti, can you confirm if the patch "5-Dark Rhodes 1" sounds FM-y with higher velocity too for example?

Will give a search for "What'd I Say?" also, cheers"

mcnoone wrote:Sounds great to me.
Can't wait to hear some more.
Don't forget a clavinet.


As a matter of fact, the good news is that I've tried different ways to get a cool clavi sound before and feeling pretty optimistic about it :)
.... so hopefully I'll pack one of those and a Wurly beside this one when getting ready for a release.
3ee
KVRAF
 
2708 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:52 pm

https://www.box.com/s/ya9ev3bsz5mgevc9n5db (now v2, forgot to activate the Shape1 module for the tines+hammer :D)

+extra one octave up at the end.... the velocity peaks at the end there.

I wouldn't call it "FM-y" .. but I also can tell that there's something needing to be fixed there... :? thanks for the tip!

...hmm how does the real instrument actually has to sound? :lol: I mean... there are so many different sounding ones + many are colored by an amp or effects....

I'm going for a more or less modern blend of all (Including aspects of MK7) fairy aggressive, tight with a tiny amount of bounce with a fair amount of control over the XY pads.
Last edited by 3ee on Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hollo
KVRian
 
670 posts since 28 Dec, 2004

Postby hollo; Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:57 pm

Great stuff! :)

I can't compare to the original, cause i don't know that song or sound, but it's just very special and organic.

Nice work 3ee!
Looking forward to your plan.

Cheers, :)
3ee
KVRAF
 
2708 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:22 pm

^ Cool, thanks! :)
Well, the plan would be not to mess up the patch, especially now when it's almost done!
I usually do that, ruining patches and than game over till next time :hihi:
hollo
KVRian
 
670 posts since 28 Dec, 2004

Postby hollo; Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:56 pm

Hehe, yes it's easy to overwork on it..

I'm use to save them much and stopping when i'm happy with the 9.th one.
3 days later i realise the first was the best. :)
don1thedon
KVRian
 
956 posts since 25 Sep, 2002

Postby don1thedon; Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:33 am

Sweet sounds!
ZebraTamer
KVRer
 
21 posts since 26 Feb, 2010

Postby ZebraTamer; Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:24 am

First soundexample is really really smooth and organic.
I like it!

How long did it take you to make this patch?
Some more insights?
3ee
KVRAF
 
2708 posts since 8 Mar, 2006

Postby 3ee; Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:25 pm

don1thedon wrote:Sweet sounds!


Hey thanks, glad you like it! :)

ZebraTamer wrote:First soundexample is really really smooth and organic.
I like it!

How long did it take you to make this patch?
Some more insights?


What happened to the 2nd one, don't you like it? (anyway, almost figured the best way to tame those higher notes at higher velocities)


As for how long... well it depends, I've been tweaking this one heavily for about 2 days from scratch.
...but if you take into account other attempts.. it's an ongoing process for hmm.. about 1-2 years?

insights?
-use as few stuff as you can, but not that you begin limiting yourself. (that way you will have more control and immediately remember what, where...)
-find the best way to model something that sounds the best and it doesn't choke the CPU
-mod matrix is your best friend, use it sparingly tho.. as you will run out of slots quickly! (URS, more mod matrix space pls! :cry: )
-find the best velocity curve on your midi keyboard and stick with it, you'll be playing it non stop
-compromises! kb track VS vel ... try to balance it out, but in some cases you really need to consider splitting sound using 2OSCs. for example, in this patch I used a 2nd osc for the main tone without the sync turned on for technical reasons.

..other things that I don't remember atm.
oh yeah, you must like and study the instrument very well beforehand and during and make objective decisions what to implement... for example the Rhodes EP is a very subjective instrument from what I understand, every single one sounds different and ppl will have subjective opinions about what they want to be featured in it and in what amount... otherwise it won't be good ;)
cheers"
jPod
KVRist
 
226 posts since 22 Apr, 2004, from Vancouver

Postby jPod; Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:40 pm

3ee wrote:https://www.box.com/s/ya9ev3bsz5mgevc9n5db (now v2, forgot to activate the Shape1 module for the tines+hammer :D)


Wow. Was that the only change you made? Because I hear a huge difference with the first clip. That quality I was trying to describe in the high end seems almost completely gone, even going up an octave and with the higher velocity it sounds much smoother.

3ee wrote:I wouldn't call it "FM-y" .. but I also can tell that there's something needing to be fixed there... :? thanks for the tip!


Sorry if my choice of adjectives wasn't that helpful, it was just what came to mind trying to describe it. My first synth was a DX-7 with a broken data slider that I learned to program with a book of patches from the library. Between that, auditioning FM-7 and owning Toxic since version 2 I've heard a lot of FM electric piano sounds and there's a particular species of them that have an overly sharp attack and what I can only describe as a hollow, glassy quality. What I heard in the high end of the first clip sounded very much like that to me so I assumed it was from some FM component of the patch sticking out. But as you say, you're not using FM so clearly it wasn't that.

3ee wrote:how does the real instrument actually has to sound? :lol: I mean... there are so many different sounding ones + many are colored by an amp or effects


I was going to make the same point.:D As awesome as Zebra is, it isn't inteded to replicate an entire signal chain. Sometimes a patch will work better if you don't try to emulate the exact sound and let the synth do what it does best (generate the fundamental sound) and leave the stompbox and cabinet simulation etc. to plugins built to do those jobs.
ZebraTamer
KVRer
 
21 posts since 26 Feb, 2010

Postby ZebraTamer; Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:35 am

3ee wrote:...


Thanks! The timespan explains a lot..

I've difficulties to judge the 2nd example, because of the different arrangement.
Maybe you could post another version of the first soundexample with the new patch and harder velocity.

But I'm a bit biased, because without any "amp effects" (chrous, flanger, phaser,..) i like the softer tones more ;)
Next

Moderator: Urs

Return to u-he