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Is there any equalizer with a zero delay feedback filters?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion

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sin night
KVRian
 
509 posts since 1 Aug, 2006, from Italy

Postby sin night; Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:50 am Is there any equalizer with a zero delay feedback filters?

Hello to everybody, this is just a curiosity of mine: is there any equalizer which uses zero delay feedback filters? I know this is important in virtual analog filters, especally with high resonance, but I'm wondering if this applies / makes sense also to equalizers (which are a bunch of filters) and if there is any actual real-world example.

Thank You.
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jupiter8
KVRAF
 
9388 posts since 17 Sep, 2002, from Gothenburg Sweden

Postby jupiter8; Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:41 am

Do eq filters use feedback ?
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Gamma-UT
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2479 posts since 8 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby Gamma-UT; Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:58 am

jupiter8 wrote:Do eq filters use feedback ?


They certainly do. Any digital EQ or filter is basically a big feedback delay as yer two main algorithms are the FIR or IIR filter.

As resonance usually isn't meant to be that obvious in EQs, I'm not sure how relevant zero-delay feedback is, although I guess it might help in modelling transistor-based analogue EQs.
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@midnight
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1584 posts since 22 Apr, 2011, from The House of Zaid

Postby @midnight; Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:26 am

can anybody provide an audio example of the same filter with zero feedback delay enabled and disabled to see what difference in sound quality it makes when all other aspects of the filter are equal (other than the zero feedback delay part)

:)
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
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Gamma-UT
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2479 posts since 8 Jun, 2009, from UK

Postby Gamma-UT; Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:32 am

@midnight wrote:can anybody provide an audio example of the same filter with zero feedback delay enabled and disabled to see what difference in sound quality it makes when all other aspects of the filter are equal (other than the zero feedback delay part)

:)


The different modes in Diva should be enough to provide a clue to that. As I understand it, the primary difference in those modes is how much error the feedback calculation tolerates, so the draft modes behave fairly similarly to a conventional digital filter. You can switch between zero-feedback and conventional filters in DiscoDSP's Corona and the difference is quite dramatic. But other things may be different between those filters.
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Urs
u-he
 
17059 posts since 7 Aug, 2002, from Berlin

Postby Urs; Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:46 am

In Diva, "draft" and "fast" use identical code for the filters at identical oversampling rates etc. The only difference is, "draft" uses a conventional 1-sample-delay while "fast" uses a zero delay feedback solver. The difference is audible with all 4 filter topologies (ladder, cascade, svf, sallen key) once a bit of resonance comes in.
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Ichad.c
KVRian
 
679 posts since 8 Feb, 2012, from South - Africa

Postby Ichad.c; Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:37 pm

Interisting Q. Where ZDF really shines - is when it's being modulated (and high res - which isn't really used in general eqs), so if the EQ is static - I don't see much use for it. In "analog" moddeled EQs i.e. - with non-linearities - it might make some small difference, but the non-linearities in EQ are generally also quite low & subtle - so I have my doubts. In synths - they rock :band2:
v1o
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597 posts since 1 Oct, 2004

Postby v1o; Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:59 pm

Maybe UAD and Softube stuff?
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@midnight
KVRAF
 
1584 posts since 22 Apr, 2011, from The House of Zaid

Postby @midnight; Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:13 pm

v1o wrote:Maybe UAD and Softube stuff?


Nope.

0df is braaaand new stuff

all previous filters are garbage :)
Has anybody ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
quayquay17
KVRian
 
539 posts since 17 Apr, 2009, from portland oregon

Postby quayquay17; Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:34 pm

@midnight wrote:
v1o wrote:Maybe UAD and Softube stuff?


Nope.

0df is braaaand new stuff

all previous filters are garbage :)


Which is exactly why all music produced digitally before 0df sounds like rubbish
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VariKusBrainZ
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3549 posts since 16 Dec, 2002, from over there

Postby VariKusBrainZ; Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:07 am

quayquay17 wrote:
@midnight wrote:
v1o wrote:Maybe UAD and Softube stuff?


Nope.

0df is braaaand new stuff

all previous filters are garbage :)


Which is exactly why all music produced digitally before 0df sounds like rubbish

Well, yours does
quayquay17
KVRian
 
539 posts since 17 Apr, 2009, from portland oregon

Postby quayquay17; Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:09 am

VariKusBrainZ wrote:
quayquay17 wrote:
Which is exactly why all music produced digitally before 0df sounds like rubbish

Well, yours does


It's true! :shock:

:hihi:
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Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7295 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:26 am

XIls-Lab Le Masque delay has 0df filters, inherited from the Synthix synthesizer.


For other VST effects having odf I think The Drop has some iirc ( But it might be better to verify that with the dev, or in the threads related to this filter VST )

LtZ
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Kriminal
KVRAF
 
18380 posts since 1 Oct, 2001, from England

Postby Kriminal; Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:32 am

Lotuzia wrote:XIls-Lab Le Masque delay has 0df filters



Its not an equaliser.
Lotuzia
KVRAF
 
7295 posts since 19 Feb, 2004, from Paris

Postby Lotuzia; Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:40 am

Kriminal wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:XIls-Lab Le Masque delay has 0df filters



Its not an equaliser.


No its a Delay. There are very very few Vst effects with 0df I think. So this can eventually give the OP some clues about the benefit they can bring.

Some other non EQ 0df units has been mentioned in this thread btw if you noticed, without you commenting them... :shrug:
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Soundbanks for Vsti

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