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Simulating first note bug

Discussion about: tracktion.com

Moderators: valley, jules, TSC, ModuLR

metamorphosis
KVRAF
 
3426 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Hamilton, New Zealand

Postby metamorphosis; Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:50 pm Simulating first note bug

Hi guys,
just clarifying something on the t3 buglist, has anybody been able to repeatedly reproduce the first note bug? I'm not clear on how this is done.
I've tried on my machine, but can't make it glitch.
Cheers-
m
XP/Vista/Win7/Win8 Optimisation, DAW Tips, AudioXP - XPFree
I made an oddly-acoustic album and an electronica thing and an alt-metal doohicky...
jules
Chief Tracktioneer
 
471 posts since 14 Nov, 2002, from Raw Material HQ, London

Postby jules; Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:56 am

I'd also be keen to hear any answers to this!
MelodyMan
KVRian
 
974 posts since 10 May, 2003

Postby MelodyMan; Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:01 am

jules wrote:I'd also be keen to hear any answers to this!


Come on people, you heard the man! :D .

I have never experienced this bug by the way.
Buy Darling Sister's new album "Rise and fall" now! Just send a pm or an email. Visit our myspace page on www.myspace.com/darlingsister for songsamples.
jules
Chief Tracktioneer
 
471 posts since 14 Nov, 2002, from Raw Material HQ, London

Postby jules; Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:59 am

MelodyMan wrote:I have never experienced this bug by the way.


Me neither, despite its legendary status, it's definitely one of the more cryptozoological bugs!
User avatar
warp x
KVRian
 
659 posts since 28 Feb, 2003, from out

Postby warp x; Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:05 am

I did experience it, but the machine that I ran T on is long gone. I do have T installed on an old G4, but I can't remember having had the bug on that machine.
ModuLR
KVRAF
 
1975 posts since 20 Jun, 2002, from Earth

Postby ModuLR; Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:29 am

To quote from eons ago...
Drop_fix is just a cc filter. It filters out the "all notes offf" and "senstenuto" at the start of playback and sends it when you stop the transport.


that was one issue (<--edited) with VSTs and the first note getting dropped.. some VSTs could handle this and other could not, resulting in losing the first note on some and not others. The second issue revolved around rewire dropping the first note when the transport is played. That particular one seemed to be a different issue but resulted in a similar bug.
Last edited by ModuLR on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ModuLR / Radio
bk
KVRian
 
1424 posts since 15 Aug, 2003, from Indianapolis

Postby bk; Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:44 am

I've never gotten this bug in normal usage, but I just took a few minutes to try to recreate it, and had no problems doing so.

If the first note is short, it causes this problem. Increasing the tempo allowed longer notes to cause the problem. Using T3 and it's built-in sampler, first notes of less than about 54 ticks (at tempo=60) would cause the problem. Longer than 54 ticks played ok. Doubling the tempo allowed notes twice as long to cause the issue.
Also, it would appear that Loop must be turned on for this to occur.
edit:I used 256 sample buffers for these tests.

Here's a simple T3 archive that exhibits the issue pretty clearly:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1725539/first%20note%20test%20Archive%201.trkarch

Simple "C" scale using a short sine wave sample and T's own sampler.
Track 1 exhibits the problem. Track 2 does not.

edit: I should have mentioned that the first note must occur on the very first beat as well. (edit: this is incorrect, see my post below.)
Also, I'm using T3 3048 on WinXP SP3. Just imported the archive to my other T3 machine and it performed exactly like the one the file was created on.
Last edited by bk on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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bk
KVRian
 
1424 posts since 15 Aug, 2003, from Indianapolis

Postby bk; Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:13 am

I just tried the above archive with Synth 1, and it performed exactly the same as T3's sampler. Also, the first note does not have to be exactly on the first beat. It just has to end before the critical 54 tick mark (at tempo=60) to be skipped. Any note that extends beyond that 54 tick mark will be played.

Good Luck!
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MelodyMan
KVRian
 
974 posts since 10 May, 2003

Postby MelodyMan; Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:37 am

Ah, bughunting in Tracktion. Feels like good old times :love: .
Buy Darling Sister's new album "Rise and fall" now! Just send a pm or an email. Visit our myspace page on www.myspace.com/darlingsister for songsamples.
bk
KVRian
 
1424 posts since 15 Aug, 2003, from Indianapolis

Postby bk; Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:44 am

Well, it's been nearly an hour...is it fixed, yet? :hihi: :P


Just noticed that everyone posting in this thread except the OP has a 4 digit KVR member number...bunch of old timer's in the house!

I think Matt's been around a lot longer than his number would indicate as well. Yes?
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ModuLR
KVRAF
 
1975 posts since 20 Jun, 2002, from Earth

Postby ModuLR; Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:18 pm

bk wrote:I just tried the above archive with Synth 1, and it performed exactly the same as T3's sampler. Also, the first note does not have to be exactly on the first beat. It just has to end before the critical 54 tick mark (at tempo=60) to be skipped. Any note that extends beyond that 54 tick mark will be played.

Good Luck!


There other factors when talking about starting a clip at the beginning of the timeline. For example, if you're audio latency is set too high.. it' will skip the note on both clips. If it's low enough, it will only skip the first.
ModuLR / Radio
bk
KVRian
 
1424 posts since 15 Aug, 2003, from Indianapolis

Postby bk; Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:03 pm

ModuLR wrote:
There other factors when talking about starting a clip at the beginning of the timeline. For example, if you're audio latency is set too high.. it' will skip the note on both clips. If it's low enough, it will only skip the first.

Interesting. I had not thought of buffer size effecting this. Can't try this right now, but will.
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mr
KVRian
 
1059 posts since 28 Dec, 2005

Postby mr; Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:17 pm

I tried in my windows 7 PC at 1024 samples rate, 44.1 Khz, internal audio card and the second example have to go to 75 note length to be heard
Se non é vero, é ben trovato
PC/XP 2CoreIntel T3 OnixSatellite
rpc9943
KVRAF
 
6548 posts since 14 Jun, 2004, from Rochester, NY

Postby rpc9943; Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:47 pm

1. Record a MIDI clip with a note held a measure or so
2. Record another track beneath it starting at the beginning
3. Notice the first track midi not playing.
bk
KVRian
 
1424 posts since 15 Aug, 2003, from Indianapolis

Postby bk; Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:49 pm

mr wrote:I tried in my windows 7 PC at 1024 samples rate, 44.1 Khz, internal audio card and the second example have to go to 75 note length to be heard

Yes. I tried again, and at 1024 buffer, I get the same result that you did. It moves the critical point to 75. My original results were done at 256 buffer, which is what I normally run. Bigger buffers do seem to make it worse, though I still had dropped notes running at 64 samples. The notes had to be shorter to cause it was the only difference.
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