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Studio Monitors my search for truth!

How to do this, that and the other. Share, learn, teach. How did X do that? How can I sound like Y?

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TwoToneshuzz
KVRian
 
939 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:04 am Studio Monitors my search for truth!

I'm going to do it. After using headphones for too long to work with sound exploration and arrangements. I just feel that to get the most out of my gear I need to setup a decent monitoring system.

I want to keep it sane, but I don't want to go too cheap.

It's especielly the bass frequency range, placement of instruments in the soundstage, compression effects, reverb tweaking. And reality check before taking my sound out into a live situation. That makes me want to make this rather expensive upgrade.


I've looked at the ADAM A77X as a nice compromise on sound quality and price. They are relatively big a three way system, not that I need the volume generally but in some cases it would be nice to be able to crank it up.Again it's bass that these give me so I can save on getting a Sub system..

I was also looking at the event Opals.

Genelec are always a good choice I suppose but to get monitors that have the bass response that I'm after I would probably pay double of what the ADAM A77X cost.


So the 1800usd/1300€ to about 2X that, would be my price range.

Are other's on this forum using monitors in this price class?

Or is it overkill? Note I'm into both Jazz, Classical,Opera,Modern Composition, Experimental, Ethnic, Latin, Chinese. Pop?Techno?HipHop? Lessons are to be learned from everything but it might be a need too meld in music you never know what's going to pop up.
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
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thecontrolcentre
KVRAF
 
16483 posts since 27 Jul, 2005, from the wilds of wanny

Postby thecontrolcentre; Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:10 am

I bought my Genelec 1029A / 1095A setup around 15 years ago. Cost 1200 pounds at the time. No regrets at all.
TwoToneshuzz
KVRian
 
939 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:14 am

thecontrolcentre wrote:I bought my Genelec 1029A / 1095A setup around 15 years ago. Cost 1200 pounds at the time. No regrets at all.


I'll take a look. I've worked with Genelec for about 4 years at the Conservatory. For intense editing of violin, and opera singers, I found my ears got quite frayed, but perhaps being a newbie at that time, I was just playing them too loud!

Seems like the price is about right.. Fifteen years of usage for 1200 pounds equates to unbeatable value..
Last edited by TwoToneshuzz on Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
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tehlord
KVRAF
 
6715 posts since 22 Sep, 2008, from Windsor. UK

Postby tehlord; Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:15 am

Some of the best monitors I've heard in the lower end of your price range are Focal CMS65s. Should come in at about €1300-1400 per pair.

I'd also say that investing some money in room treatment is at least as important as the monitor choice itself.

I know plenty of people who are working with 6.5 speakers making both dance and filmscore professionally who create outstanding mixes without larger monitors. The room being the key.
TwoToneshuzz
KVRian
 
939 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:21 am

tehlord wrote:Some of the best monitors I've heard in the lower end of your price range are Focal CMS65s. Should come in at about €1300-1400 per pair.

I'd also say that investing some money in room treatment is at least as important as the monitor choice itself.

I know plenty of people who are working with 6.5 speakers making both dance and filmscore professionally who create outstanding mixes without larger monitors. The room being the key.


I'm a Tonemeister gone a awry, so I know about room treatment. I also helped build a studio over a three year period, so I learned some things there that will enable me to do it relatively on the cheaply.

The A77X has 2 7" "woofers" and ADAMS fancy tweeter, front vented. So they are not overkill as to size they lay on their side. Really clear open inviting sound.

Focal CmS65s, I'll look em up!

Thanks for the imput!
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
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tehlord
KVRAF
 
6715 posts since 22 Sep, 2008, from Windsor. UK

Postby tehlord; Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:27 am

That's all cool then.

From the extensive research i've done both anecdotally (actual people I know, not internet rumourzzz) and listening myself, the next worthwhile step up from the CMS65's lead you into Focal Twin6Be/Event Opal and PMC TB2SAII territory. The PMC's being utterly outstanding in a listen. It's like having an extra 10 feet of mixing space stretched out in front of you, but they are pricey.
TwoToneshuzz
KVRian
 
939 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:34 am

Thanks tehlord.

I feel the urge to get something at least upto the Opals in quality but on the otherhand if some are nearly as good for less, of if there was a pair of lightly used one's available I might jump on those.

Thanks for the info.

Focals aren't that known in Denmark I think, mostly Genelec, Adam, Dynaudio.
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
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tehlord
KVRAF
 
6715 posts since 22 Sep, 2008, from Windsor. UK

Postby tehlord; Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:47 am

Somebody may well come in and say my opinion is just ridiculous, but that's what I heard when I listened to them lol.

The PMC's were considerably nicer than either the Opals or the TwinBe's to my ears. Detail was incredible.
TwoToneshuzz
KVRian
 
939 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:59 am

tehlord wrote:Somebody may well come in and say my opinion is just ridiculous, but that's what I heard when I listened to them lol.

The PMC's were considerably nicer than either the Opals or the TwinBe's to my ears. Detail was incredible.


PMC's seems seductive, detail is important in classical and opera, and my electronic symphonic style. If music doesn't have dynamic variation it's missing a key element, and micro dynamics are part of that quality. Placemnet on the sound stage, depth and breadth are all things that make up a nice listening experience.

Before I buy any monitors I think I'll go to a few acoustic concerts to reset my ears!
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
blueman
KVRian
 
1298 posts since 28 May, 2008, from Saint Paul, MN

Postby blueman; Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:42 am

Adam A7X was the choice for me. After seeing and hearing about them everywhere (including multiple photos and references in SOS magazine), I decided to dedicate some quality time for a listening test at a local Guitar Center. For me, the choice was easy. I was looking for clarity above all else, and at this price range, Adam was the clear winner (pun intended) for me 8)

So far, I've been surprised and impressed with the bass range. I have a small room anyway, so I wasn't looking for much. These feel like a solid choice for me that should serve my purposes for along time.

Rich
TwoToneshuzz
KVRian
 
939 posts since 12 Jan, 2010, from Copenhagen

Postby TwoToneshuzz; Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:38 am

blueman wrote:Adam A7X was the choice for me. After seeing and hearing about them everywhere (including multiple photos and references in SOS magazine), I decided to dedicate some quality time for a listening test at a local Guitar Center. For me, the choice was easy. I was looking for clarity above all else, and at this price range, Adam was the clear winner (pun intended) for me 8)

So far, I've been surprised and impressed with the bass range. I have a small room anyway, so I wasn't looking for much. These feel like a solid choice for me that should serve my purposes for along time.

Rich


Nice info thanks

I guess the A77X are just a bit more detailed in the midrange as it's got two 7 inch drivers to spread out the load..

Congrats on your successful choice..
waves break, but somehow it all makes sense.
SuperNoise
KVRist
 
132 posts since 13 Jan, 2008

Postby SuperNoise; Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:33 pm

Hi guys,
I'm just reading your discussion here and I'm really confused.
Don't understand me wrong, this is not my intention to kill the discussion, I just want to understand what is going on here?

First question is, are you going to buy high-end audio equipment which suits your audio requirements according to f.e. sound clarity, nice low end and so on or you are buying reference monitors?

-if you are buying high-end audio monitors, you will hear beautiful sounds (with 1000 nice details) on your desk and awfully sounds in 98% of final destination customers equipment (standard one monitor radios, car audio, mp3 players and so on).
-if you are going to buy reference monitors, you will have even problems on the beginning to hear them because of their scary sounds but in the end you know - if something sounds nice in refference monitors, sounds nice everywhere.
-what is the most important and problematic, acoustical room treatment - you may get even golden monitors, without room treatment you may forget about any control of frequencies under 300Hz
-are you going to measure the final effect with any acoustical program to verify the effect or just an impression will be the final conclusion?

-or... maybe I just missed something in my acoustical study, so would you just kindly give me a small hint to get me back on right track

Best regards,
ksandvik
KVRist
 
363 posts since 25 Aug, 2005, from North California

Postby ksandvik; Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:54 pm

I guess this is the eternal question about why should someone buy expensive reference monitors as the output is for earbuds and cheap PC loudspeakers, anyway.

My take is that you could indeed hear if something sounds bad with such lousy speakers. However you don't know what. With good ones you could quickly narrow down the problem. Less quality loudspeaker mixing is imho hit-and-miss work and with some luck you figure out what's wrong at some point.
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ZenPunkHippy
KVRAF
 
10359 posts since 18 Jun, 2008, from Melbourne, Australia

Postby ZenPunkHippy; Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:57 pm

ksandvik wrote:I guess this is the eternal question about why should someone buy expensive reference monitors as the output is for earbuds and cheap PC loudspeakers, anyway.

Just because other people listen to music on shit speakers doesn't mean we have to :)

Peace,
Andy.
Cimbasso
KVRist
 
191 posts since 22 May, 2012

Postby Cimbasso; Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:01 pm

SuperNoise wrote:Hi guys,
I'm just reading your discussion here and I'm really confused.
Don't understand me wrong, this is not my intention to kill the discussion, I just want to understand what is going on here?

First question is, are you going to buy high-end audio equipment which suits your audio requirements according to f.e. sound clarity, nice low end and so on or you are buying reference monitors?

-if you are buying high-end audio monitors, you will hear beautiful sounds (with 1000 nice details) on your desk and awfully sounds in 98% of final destination customers equipment (standard one monitor radios, car audio, mp3 players and so on).
-if you are going to buy reference monitors, you will have even problems on the beginning to hear them because of their scary sounds but in the end you know - if something sounds nice in refference monitors, sounds nice everywhere.
-what is the most important and problematic, acoustical room treatment - you may get even golden monitors, without room treatment you may forget about any control of frequencies under 300Hz
-are you going to measure the final effect with any acoustical program to verify the effect or just an impression will be the final conclusion?

-or... maybe I just missed something in my acoustical study, so would you just kindly give me a small hint to get me back on right track

Best regards,


It's all about knowing your equipment and translation on other devices. I always check my mixes on laptop speakers, TV speakers, stereo, earbuds..everything. That said, I enjoy working with my Yamaha HS50m + Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro combo. :)
Last edited by Cimbasso on Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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