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Can just any sampler do this or is it unique to rayblaster?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

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KVRian
 
1387 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin
 

Postby ThomasHelzle; Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:11 am

Aiynzahev wrote:
ThomasHelzle wrote:You can do that kind of thing very nicely with Harmor.
Does even sound better in some regards - to my ears at least.

Cheers,

Tom


Oh good one. And I guess one of DiscoDSP synths does this too right?


I wouldn't have any idea about those.
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KVRAF
 
7413 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany
  

Postby Ingonator; Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:47 am

ThomasHelzle wrote:You can do that kind of thing very nicely with Harmor.
Does even sound better in some regards - to my ears at least.

Cheers,

Tom

Only similar feature i see is that you could morph between two waveforms like with the Wave 1/2 mix in Rayblaster.
I don't think the start phase parameter could be compared to that in Rayblaster, especially if bigger waveforms or "wavetables" (up to 60000+ samples in length) are loaded into Rayblaster.

Besides that the basic principles seem to be totally different and sound quality is a matter of taste.


Ingo
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live Suite 9.1.1 / Reaper 4.61
Motif ES 7 / Wavestation EX / Blofeld desktop / Pulse 2
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addled muppet weed
 
33877 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass
 

Postby vurt; Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:05 am

Aiynzahev wrote:Not trying to spam but I'd just really like to know if you guys have found this kind of sample manipulation in other samplers

http://soundcloud.com/aiyn-zahev/raybla ... -brilliant

The sample is just a girl going "Hey, hey" and the guy says "don't stop, party rock"

Thing is as far as I remember all thats happening here is the modwheel is changing the start position in the sample and the sample is being looped in some way.

I'd have to take a look at the patches again because I forget what was going on now.

Also anyone here got the Roland V-synth? Does it do stuff like this?

Sami
i think most samplers can do what you ask.the only feature exclusive to rayblaster is the supposed filter emulation, which to my ears isnt that impressive for emulating actual filters (didnt come close to emulating anything i put into it in any meaningful fashion) but does occassionally produce ok results from "fantasy filters" but nothing overly exciting in the long run.
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KVRAF
 
7413 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany
  

Postby Ingonator; Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:33 am

vurt wrote:i think most samplers can do what you ask.the only feature exclusive to rayblaster is the supposed filter emulation, which to my ears isnt that impressive for emulating actual filters (didnt come close to emulating anything i put into it in any meaningful fashion)


As i already explained at the original Rayblaster thread those waveforms with the filter responses have to be created in a certain way to be useful.
If you just create a single cycle based on the full Cutoff of the original filter the possible range in Rayblaster is very narrow.
The best values i found so far is around 25%-40% of the Cutoff (related to the knob position, not the frequency). A basic rule is that the Cutoff point of a Lowpass filter should be around 1000 Hz (measured with a signal analyzer) for the waveform/sample you create.

Several examples could be found e.g. in the factory library, the factory sounds or here: http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1336.0

As already mentioned this kind of "emulation" got it's limits. One of them is that for a resonant filter you also need a resonant waveform/filter response.
The harmonic value and the starting phase got an important impact too. Besides that like in the original synth the filter is influenced by e.g. the Formant value (similar to Cutoff), Filter envelope, filter envelope amount and filter keytrack amount.

I guess i already explained that to you in the other thread but you never replied.

The question is also not how accurate those filters are emulated but basd on my experience you get get some very nice results, especially with the resonant waveforms. The filter responses created from different synths usually also sound quite different in Rayblaster. IMO the most interesting results are obtained when you layer an "analog" waveforms with one of a more "digital" approach (by using both oscillators). Also mixing those two waveforms in a single oscillator could be interesting.
There are lots of options if you really use some time to try it.



Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live Suite 9.1.1 / Reaper 4.61
Motif ES 7 / Wavestation EX / Blofeld desktop / Pulse 2
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addled muppet weed
 
33877 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass
 

Postby vurt; Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:49 am

yeah, i tried the methods you suggested, i still didnt find it worked in any useful manner for any of the filters i tried. was ok at basic hi pass/low pass, but getting any actual character from any of my filters didnt prooduce any meaningful results.


sorry i didnt reply, i didnt see any need to as i didnt see rayblaster as anything useful to me.
Last edited by vurt on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KVRAF
 
1963 posts since 7 Jul, 2008, from Cardiff, Wales, UK

Postby LeVzi; Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:54 am

OK that audio in the OP's post is just mad !
Forward ever, Backward never
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addled muppet weed
 
33877 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass
 

Postby vurt; Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:02 pm

bugger
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KVRAF
 
15502 posts since 27 Jul, 2005, from the wilds of wanny
 

Postby thecontrolcentre; Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:10 pm

KVRian
 
1387 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin
 

Postby ThomasHelzle; Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:23 pm

Ingonator wrote:
ThomasHelzle wrote:You can do that kind of thing very nicely with Harmor.
Does even sound better in some regards - to my ears at least.

Cheers,

Tom

Only similar feature i see is that you could morph between two waveforms like with the Wave 1/2 mix in Rayblaster.
I don't think the start phase parameter could be compared to that in Rayblaster, especially if bigger waveforms or "wavetables" (up to 60000+ samples in length) are loaded into Rayblaster.

Besides that the basic principles seem to be totally different and sound quality is a matter of taste.


Ingo


So you never tried the resynthesis in Harmor.
I find it very impressive. You can do basically the same as in the example and the result - to my ears - is smoother.
I experiment a lot with human voice so this is an area of special interest to me.
Harmor is currently my go-to device for such things.

BTW:
What is the problem with you rayblaster evangelists? Why do you feel it necessary to iterate five million times how great it is and how unrivalled? I'm sure it's cool but why that overprotectionism? Some people like it, others don't and the op actually asked if other synths/samplers can do something similar to the posted example.
And the answer is simply "Yes, many".

Just cool down a bit, won't you?
Breathe.

It's really getting annoying.

Cheers,

Tom
Last edited by ThomasHelzle on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KVRian
 
1294 posts since 5 May, 2007, from Finland

Postby mkdr; Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:23 pm

Ensoniq samplers?
www.mkdr.net

MophoEd - the BEST DSI Mopho Editor VSTi
KVRAF
 
2037 posts since 27 Dec, 2002, from London
 

Postby cron; Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:28 pm

Nice sounds, although it's kinda hard to hear what RayBlaster is doing there due to all the reverb (i.e. whether it's an FFT or granular thing). Wicked transformations anyway!

You can get somewhere close with vanilla granular synthesis. Here's a kinda similar voice twist I did a few years ago with a basic granulator. http://soundcloud.com/chqtestsubjects/c ... in-the-fog

Having said this, I'm sure RayBlaster's power lies in how expressively the synthesis can be controlled. I'm not really aware of anything else that would let you create a sound like the OP's in one take.
KVRAF
 
7951 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds
 

Postby pdxindy; Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:35 pm

ThomasHelzle wrote:
Ingonator wrote:
ThomasHelzle wrote:You can do that kind of thing very nicely with Harmor.
Does even sound better in some regards - to my ears at least.

Cheers,

Tom

Only similar feature i see is that you could morph between two waveforms like with the Wave 1/2 mix in Rayblaster.
I don't think the start phase parameter could be compared to that in Rayblaster, especially if bigger waveforms or "wavetables" (up to 60000+ samples in length) are loaded into Rayblaster.

Besides that the basic principles seem to be totally different and sound quality is a matter of taste.


Ingo


So you never tried the resynthesis in Harmor.
I find it very impressive. You can do basically the same as in the example and the result - to my ears - is smoother.
I experiment a lot with human voice so this is an area of special interest to me.
Harmor is currently my go-to device for such things.


Harmor has no Mac version... otherwise i would buy it in a heartbeat... I agree it is very impressive!
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KVRAF
 
2747 posts since 29 Jun, 2011
   

Postby Aiynzahev; Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:35 pm

cron wrote:Nice sounds, although it's kinda hard to hear what RayBlaster is doing there due to all the reverb (i.e. whether it's an FFT or granular thing). Wicked transformations anyway!

You can get somewhere close with vanilla granular synthesis. Here's a kinda similar voice twist I did a few years ago with a basic granulator. http://soundcloud.com/chqtestsubjects/c ... in-the-fog

Having said this, I'm sure RayBlaster's power lies in how expressively the synthesis can be controlled. I'm not really aware of anything else that would let you create a sound like the OP's in one take.


haha, very entertaining. Very similar too.

The the single male voices it's much easier to hear RB in my demos. all the effects are internal anyway.
Aiynzahev-sounds
Resonance Sound
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Spire, Zebra2, Massive, DIVA, Sylenth and others
KVRAF
 
7951 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds
 

Postby pdxindy; Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:37 pm

Ingonator wrote:
vurt wrote:i think most samplers can do what you ask.the only feature exclusive to rayblaster is the supposed filter emulation, which to my ears isnt that impressive for emulating actual filters (didnt come close to emulating anything i put into it in any meaningful fashion)


As i already explained at the original Rayblaster thread those waveforms with the filter responses have to be created in a certain way to be useful.


Useful maybe, but it never actually emulates even a basic LPF... it can sound kinda like a LPF over a short range but that is it... It is a different thing altogether and (imo) should be appreciated for what it is, not presented as something it isn't
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KVRAF
 
2747 posts since 29 Jun, 2011
   

Postby Aiynzahev; Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:39 pm

There was a thread were George from discoDSP showcased resynthesis of three synths, his, Harmor and I think one of the Virsyn synths. His was clearly the smoothest and that's probably why he did the comparison.
Aiynzahev-sounds
Resonance Sound
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Spire, Zebra2, Massive, DIVA, Sylenth and others
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