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Can just any sampler do this or is it unique to rayblaster?

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion

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Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8149 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:37 pm

vurt wrote:
Ingonator wrote: Rayblaster is a piece of crap
Ingo


no one said it was a piece of crap, we just pointed out that yes, many other things can do what the op asked for.
are you suggesting that nothing else can do what the op asked for?

Are you actually really reading my posts or do you want to do trolling here?

In how many ways should i answer that question again?


Ingo
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33782 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:48 pm

Ingonator wrote:
vurt wrote:
Ingonator wrote: Rayblaster is a piece of crap
Ingo


no one said it was a piece of crap, we just pointed out that yes, many other things can do what the op asked for.
are you suggesting that nothing else can do what the op asked for?

Are you actually really reading my posts or do you want to do trolling here?

In how many ways should i answer that question again?


Ingo


its a simple yes or no, can anything else do what the op asked for? not all rayblasters features, just the ones the op sepcifically askd about.

or are you just here to spam for tone2?
User avatar
dalor
KVRAF
 
2506 posts since 1 Dec, 2004, from Sydney, Australia

Postby dalor; Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:13 pm

Aiynzahev wrote:Not trying to spam but I'd just really like to know if you guys have found this kind of sample manipulation in other samplers

http://soundcloud.com/aiyn-zahev/raybla ... -brilliant

The sample is just a girl going "Hey, hey" and the guy says "don't stop, party rock"

Thing is as far as I remember all thats happening here is the modwheel is changing the start position in the sample* and the sample is being looped in some way.

I'd have to take a look at the patches again because I forget what was going on now.

Also anyone here got the Roland V-synth? Does it do stuff like this?

Sami
*Both Alchemy and Harmour can both do this. In Alchemy, switch to Granular synthesis, assign sample start to Modwheel, forward speed to 1% (to have some movement), press any note on your keyboard and move modwheel.
Cowbells!
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8149 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:41 pm

vurt wrote:
its a simple yes or no, can anything else do what the op asked for? not all rayblasters features, just the ones the op sepcifically askd about.

or are you just here to spam for tone2?


Obviously the answer for that one specific sound would be a kind of Granular synth like e.g. Alchemy but i have not checked that so far. I am not sure if it will work the same way as in Rayblaster. One reason is that not just the start point is shifted while modulation but the whole part of the sample/waveform that is currently displayed in the oscillator window (you could "zoom" in and out with the harmonic value). This could correspond more to wavetable/waveform scanning.
My first guess is that replicating it exactly does not seem to be easy.

In some granular like sounds for Rayblaster i did not use the Modwheel for the start phase modulation but the LFO. Using an envelope or the Arp pattern is possible too.

UPDATE:
I tried loading the same samples used for my own Rayblaster patches/demos into the Granular engine of Alchemy but besides the fact that it sounds interesting and even into the right direction it does not really seem to sound the same.



And no, i am not "spamming" for Tone2. I am just someone with some knowledge about Rayblaster (who was also involved with beta testing and sound design for it) that offers informations and sometimes audio demos.



Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
SadPuppyBlues
KVRist
 
488 posts since 9 Jul, 2008

Postby SadPuppyBlues; Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:17 pm

So, I hope you guys learned to not play along with Ingo when he decides to offer informations [sic] about a Tone2 product.

Wowwie, the entire thread is hijacked.
User avatar
Aiynzahev
KVRAF
 
3092 posts since 29 Jun, 2011, from USA

Postby Aiynzahev; Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:21 pm

Basically here is why a normal sampler should be able to do this, I am just too lazy to find out myself. Actually It's because I couldn't remember what RayBlaster was actually doing but its this:

A point in the sample is being looped, the Modwheel is moving the loop points back and forward.

Simple really. So as long as a synth or sample allows you to manipulate the loop point you should be able to do this crazy stuff. I'm sure I've heard this kind of thing done by Fatboy Slim

Now it remains for me to buy every synth and sampler out there.. excuse me please..
Aiynzahev-sounds
Resonance Sound
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Spire, Zebra2, Massive, DIVA, Sylenth and others
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8149 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:13 am

Aiynzahev wrote:Basically here is why a normal sampler should be able to do this, I am just too lazy to find out myself. Actually It's because I couldn't remember what RayBlaster was actually doing but its this:

A point in the sample is being looped, the Modwheel is moving the loop points back and forward.

Simple really. So as long as a synth or sample allows you to manipulate the loop point you should be able to do this crazy stuff. I'm sure I've heard this kind of thing done by Fatboy Slim

Now it remains for me to buy every synth and sampler out there.. excuse me please..


As already explained in my other post it does not simply be about moving loop points. When a sample is imported with the resynthesis it's more like a granular synth. When you then change the start point (or statrt phase) not only that one is moved but the whole content currently displayed in the oscillator display.
This at least would need moving the start and the end point but this does not seem to be the solution too. For my own examples using the Granular synthesis in Alchemy seems to come much closer but still not the same yet.

It also depends on how much you "zoomed" into the sample/waveform using the Harmonic value in Rayblaster. When it's used for granular like sounds the Formant knob is controlling the tune and the Tune knob sets the Grain density.



FWIW i just have moved my audio demos to the "original" Rayblaster thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 03#5218003



Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:23 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33782 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:16 am

Aiynzahev wrote:A point in the sample is being looped, the Modwheel is moving the loop points back and forward.

Simple really. So as long as a synth or sample allows you to manipulate the loop point you should be able to do this crazy stuff. I'm sure I've heard this kind of thing done by Fatboy Slim


you dont have to buy every sampler, there have been a few mentioned in the thread.
and it is quite a simple "feature" its just a matter of attaching the modwheel to the parameters you desire, i can even do this with orions onboard sampler.
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8149 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:22 am

*edited*
Last edited by Ingonator on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
cron
KVRAF
 
2158 posts since 27 Dec, 2002, from London

Postby cron; Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:49 am

Ingonator wrote:It also depends on how much you "zoomed" into the sample/waveform using the Harmonic value in Rayblaster. When it's used for granular like sounds the Formant knob is controlling the tune and the Tune knob sets the Grain density.


Sounds like the time-synchronous onset variant of granular synthesis. I suspected this might be how Rayblaster worked. The example I posted is using this method. What sounds like pitch manipulation is actually manipulation of grain onset speed (or density) while changing the pitch of the grains themselves results in formant shifts when grain onset is at audio rates. It's a really interesting and counterintuitive method of sound manipulation which is very much underexplored (most people seem to gravitate toward asynchronous onset times to make 'clouds' when playing with granulators).
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8149 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:09 am

Last edited by Ingonator on Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
 
2930 posts since 9 Dec, 2008, from Berlin

Postby ThomasHelzle; Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:06 am

Ingonator wrote:
ThomasHelzle wrote:

BTW:
What is the problem with you rayblaster evangelists? Why do you feel it necessary to iterate five million times how great it is and how unrivalled? I'm sure it's cool but why that overprotectionism?

If you were involved with Rayblaster from the start during Beta testing, creating waveforms for it from scratch, by doing tons of single cycles of other synths and finally creating around 160+ presets and then audio demos you would be a bit "overprotective" too maybe.
Ingo


Ingo. I actually understand a situation like that VERY well.
And I have nothing against Rayblaster.
But the way you go about it is way over the top. It is my impression from the threads I read that you are actually doing Rayblaster a disservice, and yourself as well, as a valued and experienced member of this community.

Imagine every developer/sounddesigner/betatester on KVR would flood every thread where his product was mentioned. Flood it in a way that nobody else can say anything without being told what his or her tool is doing better and more of and more flexible and whatnot.

You imply by the way you word your posts, that nobody else has any clue about anything and a person not in love with Rayblaster is simply somehow uninformed about it, which you then try to solve by repeating the facts. Again.

Every person is different, has different interests and a different taste. What sounds good for one person may be bad for another. KVR is one of the places to meet and exchange ideas, not to preach absolute truths.
Sure we all get emotional (thanks god we do!) but the moment you try to completely dominate a discussion, the discussion dies, since it first has to get rid of the dominator before it can continue.
This is the point where certain people start to attack you back.
You make yourself into a target.
But you create that vibe yourself.
If you would just give your opinion on the topic all would be fine and welcome.

On your own Rayblaster thread I simply unsubscribed after a while, since it wasn't interesting anymore after a while and I actually felt bad for you. I had a hard time reading your posts since you seemed to be so hard and overzealous regarding Rayblaster.

But I feel frustrated if you highjack a thread where the topic clearly has a much wider focus and flood it with your posts. Again, it would be absolutely cool if you add your experience and wisdom like everybody else, but like in the case of harmor, I had the impression you didn't know that much about it and were just telling me off. Some of your other posts simply are not related to the original question at all.

I am very happy for you that you found a synth that you really love.
I have several as well.
Those may overlap or not.
That's cool :-)

I don't write this as somebody with no clue about the problem.
I had and have a similar tendency myself.
I too had and have to learn to breathe... :-)

I hope this can be taken in the spirit it was meant to from a fellow human ;-)

Cheers and Carpe Diem,

Tom
LeVzi
KVRAF
 
1716 posts since 7 Jul, 2008, from Cardiff, Wales, UK

Postby LeVzi; Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:42 am

I wouldn't be surprised if Kontakt could do it. But I wouldn't have a clue how to program it though.

Probably in the scripting, which is something that's just over my head completely.
Forward ever, Backward never
User avatar
Ingonator
KVRAF
 
8149 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:09 am

ThomasHelzle wrote:
Ingo. I actually understand a situation like that VERY well.
And I have nothing against Rayblaster.
But the way you go about it is way over the top. It is my impression from the threads I read that you are actually doing Rayblaster a disservice, and yourself as well, as a valued and experienced member of this community.

Imagine every developer/sounddesigner/betatester on KVR would flood every thread where his product was mentioned. Flood it in a way that nobody else can say anything without being told what his or her tool is doing better and more of and more flexible and whatnot.

But I feel frustrated if you highjack a thread where the topic clearly has a much wider focus and flood it with your posts. Again, it would be absolutely cool if you add your experience and wisdom like everybody else, but like in the case of harmor, I had the impression you didn't know that much about it and were just telling me off. Some of your other posts simply are not related to the original question at all.

As i don't have access to the original patch in the OP i searched for a comparable one and did some tests how Rayblaster could handle comparable samples imported with the Resynthesis engine.
I have also mentioned that i have used e.g. TX16Wx and Alchemy to recreate the same sounds and that Alchemy seems to be the next best from the synths i own so far.
Before finding an answer to the question "which synth could do the same" first it must be explored what Rayblaster is capable of which is what i wanted to do, especially with the last demos i published in my last post above.
I also mentioned that i have moved my other audio demos to the "original" Rayblaster threda (which BTW was NOT started by myself...).

So far i was the only one providing examples besides just mentioning "Synth X could do the same" without posting any proof.



Ingo
Last edited by Ingonator on Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Waldorf Beta Forum Manager
"Atmospheric Transients" for PPG Wave 3.V
"Analog vs Digital" for Blofeld
Win 7 64-bit / Live 9 / Cubase 7.5 / Studio One / Reaper / Pro Tools // Blofeld / Pulse 2 / many plugins
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
33782 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:33 am

LeVzi wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if Kontakt could do it. But I wouldn't have a clue how to program it though.

Probably in the scripting, which is something that's just over my head completely.


yeah kontakt should definitely be able to do this!
i dont have kontakt so it never springs to mind, but as its supposedly the be all and end all of samplers, im sure it could do what fbs was doing back then with his akai!
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