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KVRist
 
68 posts since 19 Sep, 2007, from Germany

Postby clipnotic; Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:48 am will / is full automatic PDC available in MuLab 5 ?

Hello,

my english is not very good but I try as good as I can! :)

I'm working with Fruity Loops / FL Studio since 10 years and I'm thinking it's time to try another DAW, too. So, I found MuLab and it looks very good and it seems, that it has a good workflow.

But for me the main thing of a DAW is "FULL Automatic PDC".

One of the reasons I want to quit working with FL Studio 10 is that the automatic PDC feature there still is not really optimal. And that's the same with Ableton, too.

I'm not a live musician but rather a producer and I'm using many VSTs (synths, dynamic effects and other effects) and some hardware synthesizers, too, in my song projects.

Manually PDC in projects like that, is useless and horrible in every DAW! I know and understand how manually PDC is working and how I can gauge the latency but if I use many automations and fx chains in a song ... it's a disaster to fix all that accumulating latency problems again and again. That's a workflow killer!

So, I'm searching for a DAW which is automatically "tight" no matter how many plugins and automations I'm using in a song project!

Is or will that be possible with MuLab?

Thank you for answer!
KVRAF
 
5552 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe
    

Postby mutools; Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:05 am

APDC is not yet supported and i also have no estimation on when it will be implemented. There are many items on the wishlist and many other challenges out there (RE, tablets, mobiles, networking,...) Relatively soon i'll start some deep thinking on what steps to take next.
KVRist
 
68 posts since 19 Sep, 2007, from Germany

Postby clipnotic; Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:12 am

mutools wrote:APDC is not yet supported and i also have no estimation on when it will be implemented. There are many items on the wishlist and many other challenges out there (RE, tablets, mobiles, networking,...) Relatively soon i'll start some deep thinking on what steps to take next.


Thank you very much for fast answer! Your support is good!

But that's really a pity! :(

For me a good allround latency is a very important DAW basic feature!? Mobile working, networking, tablets are things which of course can be funny, but the main function of a DAW should be to create good and tight music or? :)

Please, don't get me wrong! MuLab is a very nice DAW project so I don't want criticize! If I would have to choose between Ableton or MuLab, I would take MuLab!

But with both of that DAWs and FL Studio, too, it seems, that really professional working is not possible? :(
Sorry, my english is not the best!
KVRAF
 
2837 posts since 10 Sep, 2003, from Karlskoga, Stockholm, Sweden
 

Postby Crackbaby; Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:33 am

I'd love APDC :)
Elektron Machinedrum Mk1 UW, Analog4, Octatrack
Soundcraft EFX12, Alesis 3630, Nanocompressor, Zoom G13, Tapco 3630
Gordon-Smith Gypsy, Yamaha THR10, P-80
M-Audio Delta 24/96 PCI
KVRAF
 
5552 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe
    

Postby mutools; Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:33 am

To avoid confusion: APDC is one of those many items on the wishlist. I understand the need for APDC if you're using plugs with a process delay like FFT based plugins or certain dynamic processors etc. Now as a small indie developer i must also see what's most profitable. Not said based on greed but based on survival!! The tablet market is booming and at the same time it has a very interesting musical aspect too imho. Having musical fun and being creative on a train, on the beach, in the garden, it's simply a very popular and interesting thing. Just telling you this so to broaden the context. I did not yet decide anything yet, i'll start some deep thinking relatively soon.
KVRist
 
188 posts since 5 Oct, 2011, from Manchester

Postby Satch1; Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:46 am

I have been thinking of buying MuLab for a few weeks now. The only thing that keeps stopping me is the lack of APDC. I really hope you decide to implement it Jo, because there's so much to like about MuLab. It's got most things I want from a DAW, except one of the most important. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do anyway Jo :wink:
KVRist
 
68 posts since 19 Sep, 2007, from Germany

Postby clipnotic; Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:49 am

mutools wrote:To avoid confusion: APDC is one of those many items on the wishlist. I understand the need for APDC if you're using plugs with a process delay like FFT based plugins or certain dynamic processors etc. Now as a small indie developer i must also see what's most profitable. Not said based on greed but based on survival!! The tablet market is booming and at the same time it has a very interesting musical aspect too imho. Having musical fun and being creative on a train, on the beach, in the garden, it's simply a very popular and interesting thing. Just telling you this so to broaden the context. I did not yet decide anything yet, i'll start some deep thinking relatively soon.


Of course, you are right! I use a tablet, too, to draw automation curves with my fingers ... it's a very nice feature! :D

But a good APDC Feature is very profitable and popular, too! For Example, look here in the ableton forum what users there are thinking about Live 9 without APDC: (EDIT: 59 pages with criticism about that!)

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=185884

I think there are two main features which the most DAW users are want:

- good workflow (MuLab has a good workflow!)
- tight feeling (a good APDC)

So, if MuLab will get a really tight overall feeling with a good APDC, then it's all around very popular!! More and more musicians have trained their ears and meanwhile they hear / notice the real latency problems! :D
Sorry, my english is not the best!
KVRAF
 
5552 posts since 24 Jun, 2008, from Europe
    

Postby mutools; Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:58 am

And what about REX, SFZ, timestretching, FM & wavetables in MUX, step sequencing, parallel editing of multiple parts, freezing, completly customizable MUX front panels including meters, buttons, sliders etc, loop composer, more standard audio recording, window docking, support for live DJing (Live MuClips), etc... etc... Just naming a few of the big ones. There are some many wishes...
KVRAF
 
2837 posts since 10 Sep, 2003, from Karlskoga, Stockholm, Sweden
 

Postby Crackbaby; Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:09 am

Clone yourself! :D
All those things you mention are very nice.. :) Glad i don't have to make those decisions. Sounds like you got Mulab 6,7,8 and 9 covered :lol:
Elektron Machinedrum Mk1 UW, Analog4, Octatrack
Soundcraft EFX12, Alesis 3630, Nanocompressor, Zoom G13, Tapco 3630
Gordon-Smith Gypsy, Yamaha THR10, P-80
M-Audio Delta 24/96 PCI
KVRist
 
68 posts since 19 Sep, 2007, from Germany

Postby clipnotic; Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:13 am

mutools wrote:And what about REX, SFZ, timestretching, FM & wavetables in MUX, step sequencing, parallel editing of multiple parts, freezing, completly customizable MUX front panels including meters, buttons, sliders etc, loop composer, more standard audio recording, window docking, support for live DJing (Live MuClips), etc... etc... Just naming a few of the big ones. There are some many wishes...


Of course, there are always many wishes from user with every DAW.

I think it has to do with a good priority system:

For example, if I use REX files but my DAW has no APDC, I have to fiddle endless around to get the latency fix if I use a huge FX chain on them ... The same with SFZ.

Timestretching of course is a very important feature!

FM and wavetables are features which are still available in many VSTs, free or commercial. So there are many possibilities to bridge the time till that things are available in MUX, too.

Step sequencing is very important, too!

Editing of multible parts can improve the workflow good but it's still good to edit in MuLab or? I know Bitwig touts about that feature ... but that DAW is still not available! :)

...

All of that wishes are good and interesting ... but a Song MUST be tight because if it's not tight all the other features are useless! :D
Sorry, my english is not the best!
KVRist
 
188 posts since 5 Oct, 2011, from Manchester

Postby Satch1; Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:17 am

mutools wrote:And what about REX, SFZ, timestretching, FM & wavetables in MUX, step sequencing, parallel editing of multiple parts, freezing, completly customizable MUX front panels including meters, buttons, sliders etc, loop composer, more standard audio recording, window docking, support for live DJing (Live MuClips), etc... etc... Just naming a few of the big ones. There are some many wishes...


:) yes all very nice things to add, but for me not as important as APDC. A lot of these things I can already achieve with plugins, without breaking workflow.
KVRist
 
106 posts since 24 Sep, 2004
 

Postby plutonia; Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:22 am

is plug in delay really a problem? i've had complex arrangements in loadsa diff songs and sequencers and never had issues
KVRist
 
68 posts since 19 Sep, 2007, from Germany

Postby clipnotic; Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:33 am

plutonia wrote:is plug in delay really a problem? i've had complex arrangements in loadsa diff songs and sequencers and never had issues


It's a very big problem! OK, sometimes it depends on the music style, too.

But independently a really good tightness is the heart of a good song!

I have an very old hardware sequencer and as I got that machine it was the first time my ears checked that something goes wrong in my FL Studio DAW ...

So, train your ears! :D
Sorry, my english is not the best!
KVRist
 
188 posts since 5 Oct, 2011, from Manchester

Postby Satch1; Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:43 am

plutonia wrote:is plug in delay really a problem? i've had complex arrangements in loadsa diff songs and sequencers and never had issues


It depends how often you use delay inducing plugins, I suppose. Of course there are a lot of plugins that have zero latency, so it's entirely possible to create complex arrangements without a problem. But there are quite a few that I like to use that have latency, like UAD plugs, and linear phase EQ. Also things like real time pitch shifters. APDC makes experimentation with these types of plugs much more fluid. :wink:
KVRist
 
68 posts since 19 Sep, 2007, from Germany

Postby clipnotic; Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:48 am

In Ableton for example it seems to be, that automation curves can't be fixed with manually PDC, I only read that and don't know it! ... so if you have to fix some effects, your automation curves of that channel / sound are out of sync. And that means your work was useless!
Sorry, my english is not the best!
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