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Hardware Recording at 24/48

Anything about hardware musical instruments.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:21 am Hardware Recording at 24/48

I've been looking into something to record the output of my Mackie mixer, and believe it or not this has been rather difficult.

My PC isnt very new so any recording would need to be done on my Netbook. This would require a new soundcard. The leading candidate here is the Mackie Blackjack (£130). However, it's likely my poor little netbook will cough and splutter half way through a session.

Ideally i'd want a dedicated Solid State Recorder. But at >£400 the gearslut inside me would go for another hardware synth every time.

Then there's the option of an old Akai MPC, but these are over £400 as well.

And then finally, I could look to an old Fostex multitrack recorder but it's a bitch (in the modern world) to transfer the WAV back to my PC.

Any options I havent considered would be most appreciated.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
BertKoor
KVRAF
 
8303 posts since 8 Mar, 2005, from Utrecht, Holland

Postby BertKoor; Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:00 am

What kind of Mackie mixer do you have? How many tracks would you like to record at the same time?

For recording audio, even what you consider to be an ancient PC can prove to be very sufficient. Besides an interface, all you need is a decent harddisk (7200 rpm)
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Image
My MusicCalc is back online!!
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:04 am

BertKoor wrote:What kind of Mackie mixer do you have? How many tracks would you like to record at the same time?

For recording audio, even what you consider to be an ancient PC can prove to be very sufficient. Besides an interface, all you need is a decent harddisk (7200 rpm)
It's a 32:8. However i'm only looking to record a single stereo out submix from it.

I wasn't clear in my initial post but the PC is the DAW and will be playing back a full mix outputting 24 channels into the Mackie. I then want to record a stereo mix of this. So absolutely zero chance it has capacity to record at the same time.

My netbook splutters sometimes when recording 30 second segments from movies at 16/44 let alone ~8mins uninterrupted at 24/48.

The obvious solution is to try it. Bit it's a bit chicken/egg without getting the new soundcard first.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
thebaggytrouseredone
KVRist
 
438 posts since 29 Dec, 2007

Postby thebaggytrouseredone; Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:19 am

I use a Zoom H4 to record the stereo mix then just import the stereo wav file into my DAW.
simon
BertKoor
KVRAF
 
8303 posts since 8 Mar, 2005, from Utrecht, Holland

Postby BertKoor; Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:27 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:So absolutely zero chance it has capacity to record at the same time.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. It should be possible imho.
We are the KVR collective. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Image
My MusicCalc is back online!!
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:38 am

thebaggytrouseredone wrote:I use a Zoom H4 to record the stereo mix then just import the stereo wav file into my DAW.
Thats quite interesting. I also have an M-Audio Microtrack which i've tried to use for this purpose. Unfortunately the inputs are waaaay too hot even after turning them right down so I gave up on it.

However, you've prompted me to do some more research and it looks like a simple -25/30db pad could do the trick. Will attempt this and report back. Thanks 8)
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:40 am

BertKoor wrote:
Mushy Mushy wrote:So absolutely zero chance it has capacity to record at the same time.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. It should be possible imho.
No it does mate, have tried. CPU is generally already at >70% when simply playing a project back.

Obviously this could be fixed by rendering etc, but i'd like to maintain the flexibility later.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
User avatar
Dean Aka Nekro
KVRAF
 
6116 posts since 4 Oct, 2007, from Escaped At Last

Postby Dean Aka Nekro; Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:58 am

Could you not setup a muted stereo aux/bus and route to a muted stereo track within the same project at the same time dude? Then all you need is a free input pair on the interface you have now :) *That is presuming you are working at 24-Bit 48kHz to begin with & you've got a free pair of inputs on the interface your using now...I know probably far to much stating the obvious which you've looked into mate. Cheap way that might work for you would be to find one of these second-hand/used and stick a 32GB SDHC card in it maybe? I know it has alot more on board than you require, However if you don't already have one it'll double as a great portable audio interface and field recorder/portable sampler...etc. I know its not its no master grade stereo recorder but they sound fine to my ungolden ears :hihi: - The Zoom H-4N or keep eyes peeled for one of the Fostex FR2 LE recorders going used cheap second-hand/used - The Fostex if you score one used is a solid, reliable unit, The Zoom also should take plenty of abuse as I've yet to manage to destroy my H2N which I'm usually adept at. Hope that helps a bit and I'm actually making sense Mushy

All the best your way as always

Dean :)

Edit: Scratch all but the Fostex FR2 LE if for some reason you can not find a plug-in -whatever dB pad for the line-ins on your microtrack/beaten by typing like a sloth :oops: :lol: - Save yourself alot there for new synth ;) = WINNING
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:16 am

Dean Aka Nekro wrote:Could you not setup a muted stereo aux/bus and route to a muted stereo track within the same project at the same time dude? Then all you need is a free input pair on the interface you have now :) *That is presuming you are working at 24-Bit 48kHz to begin with & you've got a free pair of inputs on the interface your using now...
You sloth you :D

The confidence you guys have about being able to record a stereo track has given me the encouragement to try again. Will let you know how I get on.

Dean Aka Nekro wrote:Edit: Scratch all but the Fostex FR2 LE if for some reason you can not find a plug-in -whatever dB pad for the line-ins on your microtrack/beaten by typing like a sloth :oops: :lol: - Save yourself alot there for new synth ;) = WINNING
Yeah, the Microtrack option definitely looks like the way to go. Have found a -25db pad for £8. Bit hard to beat any £8 option :D
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
lfm
KVRAF
 
2814 posts since 22 Jan, 2005, from Sweden

Postby lfm; Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:57 am

I've used a couple of Fostex multitrackers(VF08, VF160) with no issues transferring audio to and from PC over spdif or adat.

Usually I made drumtrack as a wav that I tranferred to porta.

But I think it was 16bit as I remember. But that was more than 10 years ago, so I guess they have 24bit versions today.
tapper mike
KVRAF
 
3624 posts since 19 Jan, 2008

Postby tapper mike; Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:46 am

Are you doing this live? Or are you just using the mixer as a recording console?
If you aren't going out and playing live and need the outs for monitors then send it to your 8 outs...then to a zoom r16 which can handle 24/48 8 tracks at a time.

I've been doing some editing/mastering for people working with only the stereo mix and it's a pain.
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:40 am

tapper mike wrote:Are you doing this live? Or are you just using the mixer as a recording console?
Just using the mixer as a recording console.
tapper mike wrote:to a zoom r16 which can handle 24/48 8 tracks at a time.
This looks like a brilliant solution. Simultaneous 8-track recording at 24/48 for £240 :shock:
Then as you point out I can dump the individual tracks into a DAW for mastering. Think i'm sold. Thanks mate :tu:
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
skipscada
KVRian
 
752 posts since 22 Oct, 2004, from Schmocation

Postby skipscada; Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:40 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
tapper mike wrote:to a zoom r16 which can handle 24/48 8 tracks at a time.
This looks like a brilliant solution. Simultaneous 8-track recording at 24/48 for £240 :shock:
Then as you point out I can dump the individual tracks into a DAW for mastering. Think i'm sold. Thanks mate :tu:


Recommended. By "mastering" I suppose you mean mixing. I hope so anyway. Elementary mixing in the R16 is possible and useful for preliminary mixes when overdubbing, but it makes no sense to do the final mix in R16 if you have access to a computer. A negative point is that files are imported with generic names, with no reference to the project name in the R16, so you need to do a little bit of organisation and renaming after importing. Not a big problem. Also, it's plastic through and through, so it needs to be treated with care. The pres and headphone output aren't great, but adequate at that price.
Mushy Mushy
KVRAF
 
6365 posts since 6 Sep, 2008

Postby Mushy Mushy; Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:19 am

skipscada wrote:Recommended. By "mastering" I suppose you mean mixing. I hope so anyway. Elementary mixing in the R16 is possible and useful for preliminary mixes when overdubbing, but it makes no sense to do the final mix in R16 if you have access to a computer. A negative point is that files are imported with generic names, with no reference to the project name in the R16, so you need to do a little bit of organisation and renaming after importing. Not a big problem. Also, it's plastic through and through, so it needs to be treated with care. The pres and headphone output aren't great, but adequate at that price.
I do mean mastering, but I use the term VERY loosely. (ie, only as much mastering as is possible with my neanderthol ears).

And just to clarify this "mastering" wont be happening in the Zoom but back in a DAW. I will import the individual 8 tracks into the PC and work on them there.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
skipscada
KVRian
 
752 posts since 22 Oct, 2004, from Schmocation

Postby skipscada; Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:07 am

Mushy Mushy wrote:
skipscada wrote:By "mastering" I suppose you mean mixing. I hope so anyway.
I do mean mastering, but I use the term VERY loosely. (ie, only as much mastering as is possible with my neanderthol ears).

And just to clarify this "mastering" wont be happening in the Zoom but back in a DAW. I will import the individual 8 tracks into the PC and work on them there.


Confusing the concepts mixing/mastering is a common error. You use the term "mastering" so loosely that it loses its sense. I'm not out to get you here, but by definition when you say you will import 8 indivdual tracks, they are unmixed. "Mixing" is to combine a greater number of tracks ("tracks" meaning "channels") to the number of tracks in the end format (be it mono, stereo, a surround format or whatever). "Mastering" is final preparation of the mixed track ("track" meaning "song", "tune"). I'm just pointing it out so noone gets the idea that mixing in the R16 is a good idea. It's not. You don't want to be doing a final mix in the R16.

Good luck anyway!
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