KVR Audio

Borealis · Post by **Borealis** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:27 pm

Hi, does anyone around here have any experience with, or opinions on IRCAM's AudioSculpt software?
http://forumnet.ircam.fr/product/audiosculpt/?lang=en

Cheers,
Borealis

cron · Post by **cron** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:57 pm

No experience here, but I'm keep to hear your opinions if you try it out. It seems to have some really interesting analysis types in there. I'm particularly keen to see what it can do with LPC analysis and whether it can manipulate the resulting data or if that's purely a visualisation thing.

While CDP (which I own and love) contains a lot of the same functionality, its phase vocoder analysis/resynthesis is IMO pretty poor. I think its the same CARL-like model they've been using since the mid-80s.

carrieres · Post by **carrieres** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:00 pm

my opinion is that the timestretching algo is awesome !
LPC analysis is used to process the sound
what do CDP and CARL-like mean ?

cron · Post by **cron** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:23 pm

CDP = Composer's Desktop Project - http://www.composersdesktop.com/

CDP is a superb little (well, actually huge!) sound processing package but it's... funky. Been around since the mid-80s. It's a command line program, but there are graphical front ends available that'll trigger all that command line stuff behind the scenes for you. Even with the GUI front-ends it's still not anything you'd call a modern piece of software, and you'll feel like you're stuck in the 90s while using it. You just have to live with its quirks. Brilliant system overall though. Certainly not for everyone, but I love it.

The CARL phase vocoder is just a very early model. One of the first I think, originally developed in the early 80s. I don't know if its the same code, but CDP's phase vocoder is at least based on the CARL model. You seem to lose clarity very easily when doing any kind of spectral processing in CDP. Maximum of 4x overlap (AFAIK) is one limitation of the CDP phase vocoder among other things. I tend to use its time-based programs more often anyway. I think Audiosculpt uses the more modern SuperVP as its phase vocoder.

carrieres · Post by **carrieres** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:34 pm

yes audiosculpt uses SuperVP :
AudioSculpt is powered by multiple engines : SuperVP (Super Phase Vocoder), Pm2 (Partial Manager 2) and IrcamBeat (Ircam Beat detector). AudioSculpt can also script SuperVP or Pm2 command line applications directly using its console view, wich allows to access powerfull DSP functions unreachable by the GUI.

cron · Post by **cron** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:37 pm

carrieres wrote:yes audiosculpt uses SuperVP :
AudioSculpt is powered by multiple engines : SuperVP (Super Phase Vocoder), Pm2 (Partial Manager 2) and IrcamBeat (Ircam Beat detector). AudioSculpt can also script SuperVP or Pm2 command line applications directly using its console view, wich allows to access powerfull DSP functions unreachable by the GUI.

It sounds fantastic. It's a shame I'm a PC user

If you're interested in CDP at all, a good track to listen to is Tongues of Fire by Trevor Wishart (CDP's main developer) which was composed in 1996. Everything in the track is produced from the 1 second long sound that you hear twice at the beginning of the piece. It was entirely realised in CDP (including mixing and arrangement). I'd never even think about mixing or arranging in CDP myself!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Or7VaMlEI

carrieres · Post by **carrieres** » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:51 pm

i have bought a old ppc macmini but it's better to have a intel

i want to code some GUI front-ends for SuperVP (it's available for windows) but i don't have time, i prefer to make music

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:06 pm

cron wrote:
carrieres wrote:yes audiosculpt uses SuperVP :
AudioSculpt is powered by multiple engines : SuperVP (Super Phase Vocoder), Pm2 (Partial Manager 2) and IrcamBeat (Ircam Beat detector). AudioSculpt can also script SuperVP or Pm2 command line applications directly using its console view, wich allows to access powerfull DSP functions unreachable by the GUI.
It sounds fantastic. It's a shame I'm a PC user

If you're interested in CDP at all, a good track to listen to is Tongues of Fire by Trevor Wishart (CDP's main developer) which was composed in 1996. Everything in the track is produced from the 1 second long sound that you hear twice at the beginning of the piece. It was entirely realised in CDP (including mixing and arrangement). I'd never even think about mixing or arranging in CDP myself!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Or7VaMlEI

...what a masterpiece !!!

cron · Post by **cron** » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:27 pm

Missed the reply to this.

It's a cracker isn't it!

He's a superb composer/technologist. IIRC the CDP system began from his frustration at how difficult it was to access computer music facilities. It originally ran on the Atari ST because it was the only affordable home computer powerful enough to play back a 44.1 kHz, 16 bit stereo sound file. The first four spectral processes in CDP, including morphing (KVR's holy grail

), were created for use in his 1986 piece Vox 5...

... when major computer music facilities became available in Europe (at IRCAM in Paris) I submitted a proposal for a work based on vocal transformation and was invited on the induction course in 1981. There I discovered a potential transformation tool (Linear Predictive Coding), and was invited to compose a work. Unfortunately the mainframe system at IRCAM, and much of the indigenous software, was changed immediately following this visit, and the project could not proceed until 1986, when the research and composition for Vox 5 was finally commissioned. It was suggested to me that the CARL Phase Vocoder might be a better tool to use, but no-one at IRCAM at that time had inside knowledge of the workings of this program, so I took apart the data files it produced to work out for myself what was going on.

"I eventually developed a number of software instruments for the spectral transformation of sounds which were then used to compose Vox 5. These instruments massaged the data in the analysis files produced by the Phase Vocoder. The most significant of these were stretching the spectrum and spectral morphing - creating a seamless transition between two different sounds which are themselves in spectral motion"

Blimey... you finally wangle an invite to IRCAM to realise your work in 1981, only to find they've decommissioned all their gear immediately after you got there. No wonder he felt the need to create his own system, even if did take a week to render a fart.

Vox 5 in all its astonishing glory below. The one I always think of when morphing plug-ins are debated/demanded on this board. Trev could do it on an Atari ST in 1986.

https://soundcloud.com/eduino/vox-5-the ... or-wishart

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:28 pm

cron wrote:Missed the reply to this.

It's a cracker isn't it! He's a superb composer/technologist. IIRC the CDP system began from his frustration at how difficult it was to access computer music facilities. It originally ran on the Atari ST because it was the only affordable home computer powerful enough to play back a 44.1 kHz, 16 bit stereo sound file. The first four spectral processes in CDP, including morphing (KVR's holy grail ), were created for use in his 1986 piece Vox 5...

... when major computer music facilities became available in Europe (at IRCAM in Paris) I submitted a proposal for a work based on vocal transformation and was invited on the induction course in 1981. There I discovered a potential transformation tool (Linear Predictive Coding), and was invited to compose a work. Unfortunately the mainframe system at IRCAM, and much of the indigenous software, was changed immediately following this visit, and the project could not proceed until 1986, when the research and composition for Vox 5 was finally commissioned. It was suggested to me that the CARL Phase Vocoder might be a better tool to use, but no-one at IRCAM at that time had inside knowledge of the workings of this program, so I took apart the data files it produced to work out for myself what was going on.

"I eventually developed a number of software instruments for the spectral transformation of sounds which were then used to compose Vox 5. These instruments massaged the data in the analysis files produced by the Phase Vocoder. The most significant of these were stretching the spectrum and spectral morphing - creating a seamless transition between two different sounds which are themselves in spectral motion"
Blimey... you finally wangle an invite to IRCAM to realise your work in 1981, only to find they've decommissioned all their gear immediately after you got there. No wonder he felt the need to create his own system, even if did take a week to render a fart.

Vox 5 in all its astonishing glory below. The one I always think of when morphing plug-ins are debated/demanded on this board. Trev could do it on an Atari ST in 1986.

https://soundcloud.com/eduino/vox-5-the ... or-wishart

Very nice to hear these piece of concrete musics here at kvr,

... as (still) an uncharted way to explore in 21st century's electronic music

StudioDave · Post by **StudioDave** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:24 am

Greetings,

I'm a Linux user, so AudioSculpt is unavailable to me. However, IRCAM's OpenMusic is available in a very nice port, and I've been using the SuperVP and Pm2 modules with it. Those engines drive a good bit of AudioSculpt, and there's also the OM_AS library that brings some more of AudioSculpt into OpenMusic. Alas, I have little to report at this time, I've only started to use the SuperVP/Pm2 modules and I've done little more with OM_AS beyond reading the docs.

Wrt: the Composers Desktop Project: Richard Dobson recently announced that the CDP would become an open-source project this month (February 2014). Most packages will be freely available - and usable on Linux now - but some of the more elaborate GUI things will continue to be sold.

Btw, the IRCAM libraries I mentioned are sold separately from OpenMusic. OM itself however is free and open-source software.

Best regards,

Dave Phillips

PatchAdamz · Post by **PatchAdamz** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:48 pm

carrieres wrote:yes audiosculpt uses SuperVP :
AudioSculpt is powered by multiple engines : SuperVP (Super Phase Vocoder), Pm2 (Partial Manager 2) and IrcamBeat (Ircam Beat detector). AudioSculpt can also script SuperVP or Pm2 command line applications directly using its console view, wich allows to access powerfull DSP functions unreachable by the GUI.

Sounds great!

Krakatau · Post by **Krakatau** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:00 pm

Let me resurrect this topic on Audiosculpt

This because i 'd like to have some feedback from insiders that have experienced the price policy of IRCAM products
I'm in the way to pay full price for that software for the third time because of the fact that you pay for both the software and the sessions

No updates after the end of the inscription period, you'll have to pay the full price again if you own a new platform

Seems not fair...or i'm i missing something ?

TheAdventuringPanda · Post by **TheAdventuringPanda** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:42 pm

Krakatau wrote:Seems not fair

Why did you agree to it?

Xenakios · Post by **Xenakios** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:47 pm

Krakatau wrote: Seems not fair...or i'm i missing something ?

As far as I know, licensing the IRCAM "special" softwares is a very expensive and inconvenient investment. I would not recommend involving yourself with all that unless you are in a really dire need of using their softwares like AudioSculpt. (I have not ever done the Ircam Forum subscription myself, but I've read some documents about that and heard stories from other people who have done the subscription.)

edit : Wait, you have already done the subscription and wondering why it works like it does?