Bitwig

trippled88 · Post by **trippled88** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:33 pm

Hi,

I've signed to KVR only to post this with the impression that the guys from bigwig are carefully listening
and hopefully some people could agree with the point I'm about to make.

I think, as it stands today, all daws are having lot's of con's and are very capable at one field but very limited in the other, and I'll give some short examples:

1. Pro Tools - No midi inserts, no instrument racks, no external instrument, midi editor is pretty basic -
amazing imo for mixing and editing audio with version 11 very cpu efficient.
2. Ableton - Mixer is tiny, Meters are tiny, audio editing isn't the most comfortable, not a joy to do mixing on and while some people would say this is non sense - coming from PT it's not sounding very good.
3. Logic Pro X - covers allot of ground but ruins it by having their mixer and arrange window differently arranged with the inability to move channels in the mixer from one spot to the other essentially creating a mass and lots of workflow issues with the mixer and arrangement view correlation - quiet unbelievable for a DAW at our modern times.

I think bitwig implemented allot of this already, the editor tools, the big nice mixer and meters,
and it sounded good to me, like how you would have liked ableton to be if you're coming from a more audio engineering oriented DAW.

Now we already know about the grouping and the multi timbral features coming soon,
but I'm having a few more suggestions:

1. Mono tracks - it's not allot of hassle, and I think that a pro audio app should be aware of both mono and stereo tracks, and this type of stuff matters when you want to do automation on a mono signal or insert mono fx - I know to some people it's not a big issue, but to me it's a bit odd, and I think that a pro audio app should have the basic ability of creating mono and stereo tracks, if I was now in a recording session doing mid side micing and recording that to bitwig, you begin to see that something in that terminology is somewhat annoying.

2. Melodyne type pitch corrector implemented to the editor - this can be so useful and really get this to be a full production package, logic has it, cubase has it, bigwig could do well with this.

3. This might be a tough one to implement - but I think that having the plugins off from your cpu while they're not processing any signal is probably one of the best features of PT11.

And, that's pretty much it for me including track freeze, multi timbral outs, midi routing and grouping which I'm pretty sure were all announced to be in a future update.

I truly believe after massing with the demo that there's HUGE potential here, the UI is very impressive,
workflow seems smooth, editing audio\midi is implemented allot more nicely having dedicated editor screens, if there was track grouping and multi out I would have bought this already.

I think this is the first DAW with the potential of being able to inspire creativity like ableton does but also get it edited and mixed properly, and again, imo the "audio engine" sounds stellar, worlds apart from live 9.

Hopefully I'm not the only one who wants this.

P.S - I have to ask, what's the future of people who buy their license now when version 2.0 is out as far as upgrades?

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:19 pm

trippled88 wrote:3. This might be a tough one to implement - but I think that having the plugins off from your cpu while they're not processing any signal is probably one of the best features of PT11.

There's been a lot of nosie about this on the forum and it is already on the way: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 0#p5856280

trippled88 · Post by **trippled88** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:03 pm

While this is great it's not the same feature - this sounds more comparable to the freeze function,
you're left with a waveform and the device is deactivated.

In PT, it the plugins are sort of "frozen" till there's a signal passing through the plugin. Quiet unreal that is.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:14 pm

I don't want Bitwig to be the ultimate DAW... I would prefer it remain simpler and more focused than that, address the various issues it has and add a handful of fairly basic features it is currently lacking...

lehtiniemi · Post by **lehtiniemi** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:10 pm

trippled88 wrote:3. This might be a tough one to implement - but I think that having the plugins off from your cpu while they're not processing any signal is probably one of the best features of PT11.

I guess it's not since Dom wrote this in another thread just some days ago:
"Quick one: deactivating tracks (and even hiding those then) as well as deactivating devices and vst plugins to save cpu will be included in 1.1 as an additional function to the current "on/off" button of devices, which acts like a mute, as you know."

Coming in 1.1.

I personally like the ideology of not having to think about mono and stereo tracks. Bitwig took it even further - basically you don't even need to think about audio and midi tracks (Hybrid tracks). They wrote somewhere way back something like that they thought they'd only put Hybrid tracks to Bitwig, but then it made the software look messy so they put MIDI-only and AUDIO-only tracks there as well. But I imagine they are basically Hybrid tracks with just limitations under the hood. If you drag any audio to a midi track, it becomes a hybrid track. I personally like clarity and less hassle.

I'm sure you know this, but you can also always insert Tool device with 0%-width on a track to ensure the signal is mono, if you're unsure about the signal chain.

About version 2.0, I'm just guessing, but I think version 2 is version 2 so you have to upgrade by paying. Otherwise they won't stay up as a company. I don't know about subversions of 1, if they will cost. Some companies have updates, say 1.5, that cost money, but I haven't read about Bitwig's plans. But I don't think 1.1 will cost anything.

trippled88 · Post by **trippled88** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:22 pm

pdxindy wrote:I don't want Bitwig to be the ultimate DAW... I would prefer it remain simpler and more focused than that, address the various issues it has and add a handful of fairly basic features it is currently lacking...

It's not ab out making it too sophisticated or taking the workflow away, it's just about bringing some
add ons that would basically let you use it for any application.

Today when I want to get a track going, I'll work on ableton, export the waves and open a PT session
since I'm not content with what ableton has to offer as far as it's mixing environment.

I think with bitwig the case is very different and we're having the opportunity here to have a very well made, slick self contained DAW that would give the answer for any application, wouldn't you like to do everything in one place, and yet do it really well? Kind of like what logic does, but bitwig brings with it the ableton drag and drop workflow, clip view, complex routings and everything is in a great looking slick GUI, it's really everything I wish ableton was in so many departments and it's really close to be capable of doing everything one will ever need from a modern DAW.

I think the melodyne feature would be handy to anyone who deals with recording or sampling audio,
the plugin feature I've mentioned would also make your sessions allot more efficient CPU wise, and for the mono track, again, it's just an option that could be there.

I'm very excited about this DAW regardless of what will be implemented beyond having grouping and multi out, I simply see some further potential that wouldn't take much work to achieve.

lodsb · Post by **lodsb** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:24 am

afair the mixers and meters can be resized in ableton. dont know about versions >= 6.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:50 pm

trippled88 wrote:
pdxindy wrote:I don't want Bitwig to be the ultimate DAW... I would prefer it remain simpler and more focused than that, address the various issues it has and add a handful of fairly basic features it is currently lacking...
It's not ab out making it too sophisticated or taking the workflow away, it's just about bringing some
add ons that would basically let you use it for any application.

...wouldn't you like to do everything in one place, and yet do it really well?

I don't do everything... so no... I have no interest in Melodyne functionality, or notation for example. I've never used the audio -> midi function in Live 9. Ableton Live is like an instrument and the central unique feature is the session view. Instead of focusing on making that more awesome, they have spent a lot of development time on extraneous stuff.

Along comes Bitwig which has improved on the session view concept and so I am very interested in it. It could still be improved much more... so I prefer Bitwig do that, instead of giving in to the endless push by users who try to make it everything. I want an application that stays focused on what it does well and does not try to be everything.

So I want Bitwig to improve basic stuff... like handling external hardware really well... like having a count-in for recording launcher clips... I want to be able to hook up any modern controller and have it work... I'd like to see Bitwig actually innovate with the follow actions and with follow scenes...

qtheerearranger · Post by **qtheerearranger** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:41 am

I agree with you 100% triple. I don't see how adding these "complex" functions in some views eyes (yet very simple concepts for someone who has made a career out of their music) would distract anyones workflow or takeway from the simplicity of bitwig.

1. I am a fan of the idea of mono tracks. Tool is just something that I've never worked with. Not coming from ableton, I honestly don't understand it that much. I just think of it as a stereo imager/acute panner?

2. Melodyne - I am one of the few, that prefers Flex Pitch to melodyne, so I would certainly be a fan of bitwig doing their own thing with it. A lot of people think of this as a complex feature? They are unaware of the creative potential in which it can add it the creative process. From making abstract vocals, to tuning drum breaks, to even laying out all your drums as audio and being able to see on a keyboard what pitch they are. Not to mention all the fine tune editing parameters in both. All this would do, would give the user another creative tool and the professional engineer a tool. Not to mention, give the at home producer access to these tools so they can learn and do what professionals are doing.

3. The idea that the plug-ins are in a state of freeze, until waveform activates the plugins, is obviously, without a doubt, an amazing idea (if it is possible, at this current state in time, I see this in my head, to be a very hard feature to implement)

4. It would be awesome to have some sort of score view. This would make it easy to work with session musicians and for those who still like to read and write on sheets.

5. NOTES... OMGEEZZZ I am the most ADHD dude alive, it would be awesome to have a device that we can insert into a track, just like any other plugin, that you can have a little note pad on? Just pass the audio through the plugin? This would help so much for organization.

6. Ping latency detection - Logic is the best with this, I love how it just pings the latency and knows what to adjust when working with hardware in the external instrument and i/o plugins in logic pro.

I love bitwig more than any software out there already. I understand where many users are coming from where they are scared that these new functions will take away from the simplicity of the program, but id imagine bit wig wont release anything that will take away from the simplicity. Their goal seems to be workflow, if any of this gets implemented, I would bet it would enhance everyones workflow after just 30mins to an hour of learning the new stuff. All Im saying is, if bitwig ever gave us these requests, they would make sure to make the 90% of people happy and not 90% of people mad. They would integrate these concepts with amazing workflow potential, like no DAW ever has, and NOT scare away people from using these ideas. From what I've seen from bitwig so far, I hope they attempt these ideas, because as I just said, iI would imagine them to have a different way of approaching all these concepts than the traditional DAW.

With respect

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:42 am

qtheerearranger wrote:I agree with you 100% triple. I don't see how adding these "complex" functions in some views eyes (yet very simple concepts for someone who has made a career out of their music) would distract anyones workflow or takeway from the simplicity of bitwig.

For me, it is not that it would take away from the simplicity, but rather that it takes away development time.

There is only so much development time. I have watched this with Ableton. They add a big new feature. Because of time pressure, they make it 'good enough'... like 70% of what it could be. Then users demand (and marketing too) other big new features. And so it goes. A bunch of 70% complete stuff that often has minimal or no ongoing development after that.

I prefer having fewer features that are smartly developed, rather than more 70% features.

Bitwig

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Making Bitwig the ultimate DAW for Audio & Midi Applications