Tracktion Software

lou zer · Post by **lou zer** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:53 pm

I have been using T2- T3 and my Mackie Onyx 1640 for around 6 years.
I have done a lot of recordings of mostly live gigs. Some of which I feel have really good sound. Like the link at the bottom of post and there are more in that playlist.

To me there is still something missing. That something is hard to explain but, I will try.

When I listen to some of other peoples recordings that they say are recorded in Tracktion it seems to me whatever it is pops out and the best way I could describe it would be a wide stereo sound. Not everyone that says they use Tracktion has this but, some do.

The chain of events for me usually goes like this.

Get my mix sounding as good as I can with no filters on the master out. Sometimes I will render those (if more than one song from the same gig) like that and then open another edit, load all of the songs in it and put Final mix in the master bus and other times I just do it all in the first edit.

Either way I never truly feel like this stuff sounds like it can and the above described issue is why.

So if anyone could actually give a listen and tell me how it could sound better (post mix) or tell me I'm being to picky please do.

If there is a way using filters in Tracktion please do elaborate.

Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikt1JV3 ... CBB2AB2C0A

mojobone · Post by **mojobone** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:21 pm

Firstly, it ain't broke; it's just not as squished as a lot of modern stuff. If you want your mixes to pop more, that'll require more attention to detail. In a busy mix with lots of instruments, the more you compress, the more the instruments start fighting for space in the frequency spectrum. You could try using more subtractive EQ to fit the individual pieces together and make them 'sit' better together after multiple stages of compression. The harder a compressor works, the less transparent the result will be, so multiple stages of very light compression are key. (a good tape simulator can can do this, too, but too much, and you get soup, instead of glue. It can be more difficult to maintain the stereo image with some compressors than others; try experimenting with some bus compressors in front of Finalmix and maybe fiddle with Finalmix's presets more to get a more customized squeeze going.

Peter Widdicombe · Post by **Peter Widdicombe** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:57 pm

I guess a question would be - how do you get the audio into Tracktion in the first place? Are you taking a stereo submix out of the mixing board, or do you have a multi-channel input to allow you to get all the instruments/mikes individually? Is the submix you are taking stereo in the first place, or a stage mix that you just tap off of?

(there does seem to be left/right differentiation on the horns and possibly some percussion, but most of the rest sounds like a mono mix panned center, as you would probably do for a stage mix).

metrognome · Post by **metrognome** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:48 pm

imho, it feels like the singer is standing to far in front of the backline.
To my ears.
otoh, I would that my attempts at live sounded as good.

In a stereo mix I would try, copy track, 'karaoke' removal of the vox from that, and bring it back in from from the original with some notch EQ/gating around the voice to solo it as much as you can, and some verb to set him back into the band.
On second/third listens, maybe sit the horns back farther using same technique.
Blend to suit.
If it works

Nielzie · Post by **Nielzie** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:57 pm

Peter Widdicombe wrote:I guess a question would be - how do you get the audio into Tracktion in the first place? Are you taking a stereo submix out of the mixing board, or do you have a multi-channel input to allow you to get all the instruments/mikes individually? Is the submix you are taking stereo in the first place, or a stage mix that you just tap off of?

(there does seem to be left/right differentiation on the horns and possibly some percussion, but most of the rest sounds like a mono mix panned center, as you would probably do for a stage mix).

This^

lou zer · Post by **lou zer** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:18 pm

Everybody is tracked individually.

Actually in this place I ran splitters from the soundmans snake to my mixer. He could do his thing and all I had to do is take in the data.

I panned the horns FYI to get a little more separation. trumpet left sax center trombone right.I dont think panned hard though.
Im gonna try and take a screenshot of this and add to this post.

Of course screenshot wont work and picture on camera sucks

Bass Center
Conga top (high) left 0.378
conga bottom (low) left 0.402
Bongo center
2 tymbali mics center
keys center
trumpet hard left
sax center
trombone hard right
Lead vox center
B U vox 1 .054 left
B u vox 2 center
B U vox 3 .063 right

All vox go into a sub mix with eq reverb and looks like the compression is off.

It has been a few years but if my memory serves me correct anything slightly panned really helped separate things from the clusterbomb going off. I also chopped the empty space out between audio on the horns and vocals. That P.A. was LOUD as hell so theres bleed. I also recall when adding compression that the stuff in the bleed through became a factor big time. So I ended up with the concept of less effects are better.

Ive gotta head out. I will continue this later

Thanks for the thoughts

Jeff Benetti · Post by **Jeff Benetti** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:20 pm

I think it sounds great for a live recording although I agree it sounds a bit two dimensional. Sorry no advice here, just respect.

Thanks for sharing.

metrognome · Post by **metrognome** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:30 am

A question if I may.
You've said you tracked individual channels from the stage mixer into your own mixer.
Did you then USB (or Firewire) these tracks individually into your DAW (assuming it's Tracktion ) so that you have separate control of each part?
Or did you do the mixing/panning in your mixer and output that into your DAW as a L/R stereo file?

66d35 · Post by **66d35** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:37 am

For a live recording it is very good indeed.

If you are comparing to studio recordings as the benchmark, however, a live recording is not going to be identical. You will have much better isolation, better room acoustics, less spill, ability to use higher grade preamps, compression, better mics.....overdubs.... the list goes on. To get 'that' sound - head for the studio. For a live take, though, you have not got much to complain about. Well done.

frankvg · Post by **frankvg** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:20 am

lou zer wrote:So if anyone could actually give a listen and tell me how it could sound better (post mix) or tell me I'm being to picky please do.

If there is a way using filters in Tracktion please do elaborate

Perhaps you like to upload a Tracktion archive for people to have a go at mixing? You can then compare with your own work and see what you like best and how to improve.

lou zer · Post by **lou zer** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:55 am

Perhaps you like to upload a Tracktion archive for people to have a go at mixing? You can then compare with your own work and see what you like best and how to improve.

Thats a cool idea Frankvg!

Ive got a long day ahead (lending my truck and tools to someone, making my beekeeping rounds, then practice with my current band (something I should let someone elses ear get at a mix because an outside ear HELPS) and lining up work for the week.

I will definately upload an archive in the coming day or three and cant wait to hear some other folks work.

lou zer · Post by **lou zer** » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:09 am

by metrognome; Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:30 pm
Re: The end result could sound better?

A question if I may.
You've said you tracked individual channels from the stage mixer into your own mixer.
Did you then USB (or Firewire) these tracks individually into your DAW (assuming it's Tracktion ) so that you have separate control of each part?
Or did you do the mixing/panning in your mixer and output that into your DAW as a L/R stereo file?

Firewire into Tracktion with separate control for each part. Split each mic from the snake. Worked killer. It was a rather large ball of wires at the snake but, organized. Also keep in mind that I have done aoround 6 or 7 of these sasla bands. They switch instruments a lot, walk off the job in the middle of a gig (some players) and so on. Quite crazy. This particular band was steady and all pro.

lou zer · Post by **lou zer** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:19 pm

Here is my attempt at getting the files of just that song to whoever wants to have at em.

Dont know if it will work.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s2cs55hqx7rb ... LS_ka?dl=0

frankvg · Post by **frankvg** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:17 pm

I managed to download and unpack them fine. (Although there seems to be a bug that doesn't reference the files correctly; had to do that manually.)

At first listen amazed at how good your mix actually is. I did however spot some files with dc offset so that needs some correction. And what went wrong with the saxophone?

lou zer · Post by **lou zer** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:32 pm

Im away from home so I cant tell you what you may have found wrong with sax.

Not sure what you mean by refrencing the files correctly but if youre talking time stamping keep in mind that when I do this I let the recording run for the length of the sets. Almost impossible to stop between each song and start a new edit