SPL Full Ranger / Free Ranger false EQ freq info
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1603 posts since 18 Feb, 2005 from Serbia
I have received a monthly Plugin Alliance newsletter yesterday and noticed there's a link to a video introducing their 4 free plugins.
I have installed them all and went to C.Budde's VST Plugin Analyzer to check out the EQ curves in SPL Free Ranger. Lo and behold, one of them was wrong.
I have sent an email to their support, stating: "Why does one of your EQ bands state "1K8", but the spectrum analyzer shows 900 Hz ?"
And the reply I got was: "This is modeled analog hardware and not a decision from our site."
WTF? What kind of answer is that?
Their info clearly says:
1,8kHz center frequency – this is THE EQ test frequencies. An EQ that sounds good here is a good EQ. Therefore it makes a lot of sense to compare EQs in that range. Applications examples: Boost for more bass definition and presence, cut reduces metal for brass.
What I see here looks more like 900 Hz to me...
Way to go Plugin Alliance
I have installed them all and went to C.Budde's VST Plugin Analyzer to check out the EQ curves in SPL Free Ranger. Lo and behold, one of them was wrong.
I have sent an email to their support, stating: "Why does one of your EQ bands state "1K8", but the spectrum analyzer shows 900 Hz ?"
And the reply I got was: "This is modeled analog hardware and not a decision from our site."
WTF? What kind of answer is that?
Their info clearly says:
1,8kHz center frequency – this is THE EQ test frequencies. An EQ that sounds good here is a good EQ. Therefore it makes a lot of sense to compare EQs in that range. Applications examples: Boost for more bass definition and presence, cut reduces metal for brass.
What I see here looks more like 900 Hz to me...
Way to go Plugin Alliance
Last edited by Lesha on Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It's easy if you know how
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- Banned
- 454 posts since 30 Apr, 2013
Yes, they are inaccurate on purpose, not by chance or omission. Same goes for their paid 'analog' EQs. Long story short, Plugin Alliance EQs are a waste of time and money.
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- KVRian
- 750 posts since 30 Aug, 2011 from somewhere in universe
If you read product description then, you should have noted that:lesha wrote:I have sent an email to their support, stating: "Why does one of your EQ bands state "1K8", but the spectrum analyzer shows 900 Hz ?"
And the reply I got was: "This is modeled analog hardware and not a decision from our site."
WTF? What kind of answer is that?
It models SPL RackPack Eqs. Here's the quote from SOS review of hardware:Plugin Alliance wrote:The Free Ranger is based upon the Full Ranger-EQ from our EQ Rangers series
Basically, the idea is that SPL Free Ranger behaves as original hardware, not as a digital EQ.Sound On Sound wrote:The Full Ranger has frequency centres of 40Hz, 90Hz, 150Hz, 500Hz, 1.8kHz, 4.7kHz, 10kHz and 16kHz, and the cut and boost is controlled by a set of miniature sliders. Unlike a traditional graphic equaliser, where the filters are set one octave apart with identical response curves, this SPL design tailors the response of each filter band based on musical principles (rather than mathematical ones). Essentially, the filter curves get wider (lower Q-settings) the further you go up the audio spectrum.
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1603 posts since 18 Feb, 2005 from Serbia
So, let's mislead our customers and make them believe they are using 1800 Hz instead of 900 Hz.Loki Fuego wrote:Basically, the idea is that SPL Free Ranger behaves as original hardware, not as a digital EQ.
Very clever.
It's easy if you know how
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- KVRian
- 750 posts since 30 Aug, 2011 from somewhere in universe
Sound On Sound wrote:Unlike a traditional graphic equaliser, where the filters are set one octave apart with identical response curves, this SPL design tailors the response of each filter band based on musical principles (rather than mathematical ones).
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
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- KVRian
- 750 posts since 30 Aug, 2011 from somewhere in universe
Most probably, because hardware SPL Full Ranger behaves that way. Try boosting less, try analysing other bands. Try measuring response to different material. It's hardware modelled EQ, its response is made to behave like original hardware, not like digital EQ.
Wonder whether my advice worth a penny? Check my music at Soundcloud and decide for yourself.
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
re:vibe and Loki Fuego @ Soundcloud
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1603 posts since 18 Feb, 2005 from Serbia
I have just downloaded a demo of Full Ranger and it gets even better
Look at the differences.
16K = 17 KHz
10K = 5500 Hz
4k7 = 2500 Hz
1K8 = 900 Hz
500 = 350 Hz
150 = 150 Hz
90 = 70 Hz
40 = 38 Hz
The only thing you can trust here are your ears.
Look at the differences.
16K = 17 KHz
10K = 5500 Hz
4k7 = 2500 Hz
1K8 = 900 Hz
500 = 350 Hz
150 = 150 Hz
90 = 70 Hz
40 = 38 Hz
The only thing you can trust here are your ears.
It's easy if you know how
- KVRAF
- 2554 posts since 4 Sep, 2006 from 127.0.0.1
what camsr suggested...
perform your test again at a different sampling rate (88.2kHz for example)
if the resultant EQ frequencies change - then that's your answer.. most likely the IIR frequency tuning algorithms in that plugin were lousy
lots of the IIR filter/eq code examples from the internet (musicdsp archive for example) especially if they are old (from the times where CPUs were magnitutes slower) don't come with decent tuning formulas, or don't have tuning formulas at all
that's where the dev has to figure out some formula.. if the formula is lousy - changing sampling rate would change the cutoff frequency mapping of the filter
perform your test again at a different sampling rate (88.2kHz for example)
if the resultant EQ frequencies change - then that's your answer.. most likely the IIR frequency tuning algorithms in that plugin were lousy
lots of the IIR filter/eq code examples from the internet (musicdsp archive for example) especially if they are old (from the times where CPUs were magnitutes slower) don't come with decent tuning formulas, or don't have tuning formulas at all
that's where the dev has to figure out some formula.. if the formula is lousy - changing sampling rate would change the cutoff frequency mapping of the filter
It doesn't matter how it sounds..
..as long as it has BASS and it's LOUD!
irc.libera.chat >>> #kvr
..as long as it has BASS and it's LOUD!
irc.libera.chat >>> #kvr
- KVRAF
- 2117 posts since 24 Feb, 2004 from Germany
I can't believe that the original hardware is that wrong, manipulating mostly 900Hz when moving a 1K8 slider....Loki Fuego wrote: If you read product description then, you should have noted that:
It models SPL RackPack Eqs. Here's the quote from SOS review of hardware:Basically, the idea is that SPL Free Ranger behaves as original hardware, not as a digital EQ.Sound On Sound wrote:The Full Ranger has frequency centres of 40Hz, 90Hz, 150Hz, 500Hz, 1.8kHz, 4.7kHz, 10kHz and 16kHz, and the cut and boost is controlled by a set of miniature sliders. Unlike a traditional graphic equaliser, where the filters are set one octave apart with identical response curves, this SPL design tailors the response of each filter band based on musical principles (rather than mathematical ones). Essentially, the filter curves get wider (lower Q-settings) the further you go up the audio spectrum.
And if the algos are wrong, it's strange that not all frequencies are wrong in the same way.
Anyway the answer of the vendor is crap ("it's not a bug, it's a feature...")
- KVRAF
- 2554 posts since 4 Sep, 2006 from 127.0.0.1
if the frequencies stay the same when running at different sampling rates - then the tuning is consistent, and the wrongness of the labels vs actual frequencies must be intentionallesha wrote:I have already tried 88.2 KHz, the behaviour is exactly the same.
It doesn't matter how it sounds..
..as long as it has BASS and it's LOUD!
irc.libera.chat >>> #kvr
..as long as it has BASS and it's LOUD!
irc.libera.chat >>> #kvr