KVR Audio

nakid · Post by **nakid** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:26 pm

I'm not a beginner/new to mixing however I would say I am a novice, frustratingly. I have spent countless hours of my life scrolling down internet articles on mixing/production, watching countless videos and reading books. I have spent quite a bit of money on music production and wouldn't really want to spend any more. Has anyone get any tips on the best/fastest and most accurate way to learn how mix. Just to make myself when i say fastest i don't mean mixing can be learned in a few days, im fully aware it takes years to master, i mean how i can i learn crucial tips instead of wading through useless information that slows down my learning progress.

A few questions that might help struggling novices going round in circles:

A: Is propellerheads reason good enough to make a quality mix ?
B:Where i can i learn the tried and tested fundamentals of mixing for FREE or cheaply ?
C: How to know when you've used a bad sample before it comes to mixdown time
D: I've heard using preset plug-in are bad as they are compressed and make your mix sound band, what is the alternative or to presets, or choosing good sounding plug-ins.

Im not expecting all of this to be answered, just help where you can and ill piece all the answers.

www.soundcloud.com/nakidhouse If anyone wants to give me any pointers.

thanks for the help in advanced and hopefully this will help noivces like myself

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:44 pm

How to know when you've used a bad sample before it comes to mixdown time

I don't understand this question. What is "mixdown time" and why do you leave it for later? You know if the sample first the track immediatelly you play it.

As to mixdown, it is complex process:
- Read books (I mean, real books, not tutorials by 13-year old)
- Try it yourself
- See how other do it
- Discuss it with other people
- Ask for feedback and accept it. Someone may be wrong about mixing techniques in general, but if they say they don't like your mix, they are always right.

Shuffle, repeat.

what is the alternative or to presets, or choosing good sounding plug-ins.

There are no presets for mixing. At all. This is nonsense.

Mixdown is an intreractive process when you listen and react, then listen again to the result.

Also, is that your soudncloud page? Because I heard someone play second track somewhere this month. Or is it bootleg?

ImNotDedYet · Post by **ImNotDedYet** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:44 pm

nakid wrote: A: Is propellerheads reason good enough to make a quality mix ?
B:Where i can i learn the tried and tested fundamentals of mixing for FREE or cheaply ?
C: How to know when you've used a bad sample before it comes to mixdown time
D: I've heard using preset plug-in are bad as they are compressed and make your mix sound band, what is the alternative or to presets, or choosing good sounding plug-ins.

http://www.soundcloud.com/nakidhouse If anyone wants to give me any pointers.

A) Yes
B) Practice and compare to professionally mixed and mastered stuff
C) Only you can know the sound you're trying to achieve when choosing the samples. If you don't know the sound you're trying to achieve, then you have no way of picking the correct samples.
D) Are you talking about plugin presets here or samples? Plugin presets shouldn't have any compression on them, unless there's a compressor on the plugin itself. Many say not to use samples for this reason, but I've never heard it with plugin presets. If you're not good at sound design, using plugin presets is fine IMO.

I listened to your Sex, Drugs and Haus (second edit) and it needs a lot of work on the EQ in general. I picked up on this in the first few seconds. When you cut EQ, use high Q values and lower Q values for EQ bumps/adds) First of all, save a version as the song is now. The kick sounds hollow. Once the bass kicks in there's far too much sub bass and it becomes muddy. Sweep a fairly substantial EQ cut across the bass between 100 and 300 Hz and find what removes the mud. (also consider bussing the kick and bass and doing the same) Once you find the best spot, play with Q and gain reduction to get the most of the sound while still removing the mud. The vocals need a bump in EQ in the upper ranges. (or they might be LP filtered too much early on? They seem to get brighter later on?) I'm not good or experienced enough to know where exactly, but I'd guess in the 4 - 8 kHz range. I like the verb on the vocals, but it's not timed to the beat. Google a delay/reverb calculator and make some setting adjustments to pre-delay and overall decay based on the BPM of your song. so the verb helps fit the rhythm of the song or explore side chaining your reverb. (definitely sidechain the verb at about two minutes) Also, play with the decay and release of your hats, cymbals, snares, etc. and their associated reverb to make sure they also fit the rhythm. Now, listen to this version compared to your old version and see if you can hear a difference/improvement. If so, now you know what to listen for in your next song(s)

ntom · Post by **ntom** » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:03 pm

Your music takes me back to the 90s/early oughts.

A) It's not the tool, it's the user that makes a quality mix. Get Dub Turbo, it make phat beatz for you.

B) ImNotDeadYet's suggestion is the best I can think of. I often like to compare my own mixes against my own to see how far I have grown as well.
C) What's a bad sample? You're relying too much on the technical and not enough on your ears.
D) Alternative to presets? Learn to program your own. Simple as that.

I am by no means a professional myself, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I think the one line that has always stuck out throughout my time doing music is to "trust your ears", your ears should take precedence over your eyes when it comes to mixing. It helps knowing what it is you are trying to do with your mixes before hand too. How do you want the drums and bass to play together? Do you want a lose drive or a tight groove? Is the track rhythm driven or melody driven? I think it's always a good idea to go into a mix asking yourself these questions so you know how to mix it the way you want.

All in all, the best way to learn is trial and error - and let this idea (along with the "trust your ears" thing) ring out through everything you do in music. From an instrument to a full mix down, check your music before and after A/B. Explore the functionality of your plugins and software, don't be afraid to expirament, and if something doesn't work out: just learn to dial it back a little bit (or up, depending on this)
To me, it always helped to check my music on as many references I could find. Every single song I mix I check on my cans, I check on my monitors, I check on a gaming headset, I check in my car's stereo, I check on my phone's speaker, and I check in my best friend's car stereo, I drive downtown borrow the local coffee shops radio to check my mix, I go to the football stadium and try it out on their loud system, I go to the theatre and plug it into their Dolby Digital surround system....I think you get the point: Check it on as many reference you can, but make sure you are familiar with the quirks of every single reference you check it against. My car's stereo has under-exaggerated mids, a mildly exaggerated bass, and whispy trebles, so I know if something funny is going on in the mids, to ignore it. My gaming headset is tuned for a more "cinematic" sound, so the bass tends to be very full and the highs very crisp, while the mids tend to leave much to be desired.
Hopefully that helped some! Good luck!

sbj · Post by **sbj** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:21 am

Here is a Guide to Mixing with a lot of info:
http://stash.reaper.fm/v/11196/Guide%20 ... 8-2009.pdf

Hope it can help

nakid · Post by **nakid** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:23 am

To answer DJ Warmonger:

When I say "mix down time", I mean have finished my arrangement and it is now time to mix the track down. In terms of samples I feel I have chosen the right samples during the arrangement, but when it comes to the mix instrument choice and sample selection doesn't seem/feel right. Lacking warmth, not enough punch, but these are things that only sound "bad to me after the track is finished and it's time to mix".

I have books such as mixing secrets, house music production, and dance music manual. What other books would you suggest ?(more daw based mixing would be preferred as I don't use any instruments or real hardware) Also where can I see others do it ?

I didn't mean mixing presets as I agree this is silly because each track will need its own individual mix lol, I meant as instrument presets and samples .

Yes that is soundcloud page, I have posted a track on here before.

To answer imnotdeadyet

This is this bit I’m struggling with, mix referencing I can hear all these mistakes you mention when referencing, but when I make eq adjustment it just doesn’t sough the problem or makes things worse(like my ears aren’t understanding where to caught even though it knows the problems, this is what I need help with to learn, understanding and hearing where to make the adjustments)

I spend hours/days trying to mix I probably end up making 7-8 versions and I just get tired and say this will do that what ends up happening.(not for a want of trying I don’t want people think I’m being lazy)Does anyone except stems for mixing here does anyone know ?

I would love my mixes to sound like these guys this is who I use to reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kJtdXFRR7w James Dexter –system check
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jga4pARctdk Adana twins –every day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-byLI1E-SM bicep, Omar odyssey – don’t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63FVLBJ1KJc Mk – given (dub)

to answer tom

Kind of similar to the above, I try my best to mix reference as best I can, know how I really do. I know in my head how I want it to sound, like tracks I mentioned above, with clarity, bass not being overwhelming and powerful but when I make the adjustments nothing seems to happen or it gets worse

Thanks guys for the feedback , really appreciating the help and support

ImNotDedYet · Post by **ImNotDedYet** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:26 am

Buy the Mixing Engineer's Handbook. I've read a couple of those books. They give very high level advice. You can do much better and The Mixing Engineer's Handbook goes into detail on all things mixing with a fantastic section on EQing as well as Verb, Delay and Compression.

If your EQs have A/B capabilities try that out. Remember what I said: EQ cuts have high Q's (are thin) and bumps/adds to EQ have lower Q's (are fatter) Play with the settings of gain cut/add, Q and frequency until it just "sits in the mix" nicely. Only your ears can tell you that. You have to keep trying and experimenting and A/B comparing so that you can tell what you just did. Then the light bulb will go on.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:29 am

Agree that Bobby Owsinky's ME Handbook is good to get some kind of structure of the process, and many comments on each part from famous mixers, how they think on the matter.

Just the simple idea to have a full sounding mix, all frequencies should be present.
So that give that arrangement is the first thing to look at, which instruments play what, and when. Doing that right means less EQing for overlapping problems.

And as said, reference mixer that you think sound really good from your collection of bought CDs. To really know what it can sound like, forget about mp3's.

Many tips and tricks that are good are in Producers Manual too. Very hands on a lot of it.

And to really understand how much work that may be behind a good sounding mix, listen to the interviews at http://pensadosplace.tv which is good insight too. Professionals spend weeks sometimes on one song to get it right. Imagine that, and how much you spent so far, really going for details being perfect. A wakeup call for me anyway.

Turello · Post by **Turello** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:54 am

Izhaki Roey - "Mixing Audio" ... This could be a good starting point...

manducator · Post by **manducator** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:29 am

Turello wrote:Izhaki Roey - "Mixing Audio" ... This could be a good starting point...

Definitely YES!!

And start with proper gain staging, eq and compressing. These are the basics.

Fritze · Post by **Fritze** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:53 pm

nakid wrote: I have spent countless hours of my life scrolling down internet articles on mixing/production, watching countless videos and reading books. I have spent quite a bit of money on music production and wouldn't really want to spend any more. Has anyone get any tips on the best/fastest and most accurate way to learn how mix.

Here's is your core problem why you don't progress: You wade through tons of (partly good) advice and don't know how to choose the good advice.
You're waiting for somebody to present you the magic bullet and silently hope that you somehow recognize it as such.
I suggest that you check out Pensado's place. He's a top gun mixer and has tons of advice available. Peace.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:01 pm

I learned mixing entirely on my own, but then it took me about 10 years for my mixdowns not to kinda suck

nakid · Post by **nakid** » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:56 pm

https://soundcloud.com/nakidhouse/sex-d ... it/s-hGwM2

I have posted this secret link so only kvr users will be able to use it. This is an updated version.

Firebird · Post by **Firebird** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 pm

ImNotDedYet wrote:Buy the Mixing Engineer's Handbook. I've read a couple of those books. They give very high level advice. You can do much better and The Mixing Engineer's Handbook goes into detail on all things mixing with a fantastic section on EQing as well as Verb, Delay and Compression.

If your EQs have A/B capabilities try that out. Remember what I said: EQ cuts have high Q's (are thin) and bumps/adds to EQ have lower Q's (are fatter) Play with the settings of gain cut/add, Q and frequency until it just "sits in the mix" nicely. Only your ears can tell you that. You have to keep trying and experimenting and A/B comparing so that you can tell what you just did. Then the light bulb will go on.

Also there are lots of free videos on youtube, some good.

BUT, just spend the time in the trenches.
WORK at it, work harder then others.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:01 pm

Here's a quick guide I wrote on mixing that's pretty to the point, maybe it helps some:

http://innerportalstudio.com/articles/Mixdowns.pdf

In general I find that the new version of your song has just a bit too much lows and highs, say 60-80Hz and above 11kHz roughly. There's not much happening in the mids, and in some regards combined with the lack of mids it's making the lower mids and upper bass area sound a bit... loose. 200-400Hz range.

What is the best way to learn MIXING -self taught