Roger Linn Design

Dirk Diggler · Post by **Dirk Diggler** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:34 pm

Hello,
first let me say I'm loving my Linnstrument more every day I use it. I'm using it as my upper controller, for mostly leads and melody type things right now. I have also posted my concerns over at the Receptor forums here on KVR, since I believe my issues are with Receptor and not the Linnstrument specifically.

Ok here's the scenario, when I plug Linnstrument directly via USB into Receptor, I get hanging notes big time, it's basically unplayable this way. It's as if all the data it puts out just covers over the ability for Receptor to catch the note offs. The thing that is really curious is I've not had this problem with connecting it directly to my computer(win7 64). No hanging notes at all this way, and even more curious is if I then send Linnstrument data(USB) from my computer to Receptor via midi, it works great. So it seems like to me that the Receptor is having an issue with it's conversion from USB to midi. I will add that I can duplicate this using the exact same VST in Receptor, connect direct Receptor USB, hanging notes, USB to computer, midi out to Receptor, everything's fine.

One last thing, when I tried to use the physical midi out of the Linnstrument, it just overwhelms the Receptor as if it's just trying to change patches and crashes Receptor, so that's not an option.

I have tried pretty much all the possible setup changes of channels and such in Linnstrument and haven't seen any change in performance.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Dirk

oldgearguy · Post by **oldgearguy** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:52 pm

Have you tried plugging the output of the Linnstrument into a PC or tablet/iPad running MIDI monitoring software like MIDI-Ox? In theory the Linnstrument should be virtually silent until touched, so if you see data streaming out on power up, it could be an indication something is wrong.

Also, is Receptor set up to send MIDI data back to the Linnstrument? If so, there could be some type of MIDI loop locking the system up.

Lastly - do you have both the USB and DIN MIDI connections going to Receptor or did you test them one at a time (with wall power for DIN MIDI)?

Dirk Diggler · Post by **Dirk Diggler** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:10 pm

Hey oldgearguy,
thanks for the response.

Well I have looked at the Midi monitoring via the Receptor, and all looks good there, no activity until a note is pressed.
And on the PC with Midi-Ox, all fine there but no surprise since it works as it should on the PC.

No loop back setup at all, either straight USB or Midi 1 way into Receptor. And only did one at a time to prevent any other issues from confusing things.

I'll throw a question your way, have you had any success using the midi out of the Linnstrument?

As soon as I unhook the USB, plug in the Midi cable and then select midi out on the Linnstrument, the display on the Receptor goes crazy switching and loading presets and then crashing it. This is another issue I think, the only reason I tried Midi out was to try and troubleshoot the note hanging issue. Really baffling that as long as I go through the computer first everything is fine, but that defeats the ultimate goal of using both live.

Cheers,
Dirk

oldgearguy · Post by **oldgearguy** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:41 pm

Dirk Diggler wrote:Hey oldgearguy,
thanks for the response.

Well I have looked at the Midi monitoring via the Receptor, and all looks good there, no activity until a note is pressed.
And on the PC with Midi-Ox, all fine there but no surprise since it works as it should on the PC.

No loop back setup at all, either straight USB or Midi 1 way into Receptor. And only did one at a time to prevent any other issues from confusing things.

I'll throw a question your way, have you had any success using the midi out of the Linnstrument?

As soon as I unhook the USB, plug in the Midi cable and then select midi out on the Linnstrument, the display on the Receptor goes crazy switching and loading presets and then crashing it. This is another issue I think, the only reason I tried Midi out was to try and troubleshoot the note hanging issue. Really baffling that as long as I go through the computer first everything is fine, but that defeats the ultimate goal of using both live.

Cheers,
Dirk

I have my Linnstrument plugged into a large MIDI patchbay (16x32). The patchbay, when it powers up, waits for the MIDI data to settle then loads the patch configuration. There have been times when I've powered up the Linnstrument and patchbay at about the same time where the patchbay locks up. I have seen continuous pitch bend and other random MIDI messgaes in that situation.

NOTE - in my case it's usually after flashing a new version of the OS and I am using DIN MIDI and I forget to flip the global setting from USB to DIN. When it's powered up as USB and DIN connected is when I see that weird behavior. If I remember to set it to DIN first, then connect it up and then power on, it's been quiet.

I have not been able to reliably reproduce the circumstances of the MIDI flood, so I have been reluctant to bring it up as an issue (also it could be due to my software changes that I am testing as well).

Dirk Diggler · Post by **Dirk Diggler** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:08 pm

Interesting, and thanks for the help/troubleshooting/proof of sanity. That has to be an impressive patchbay, I only have a lowly 4x4. Another reason I'm wanting to go USB, is so I can use both my Axis 64 and Linnstrument live with the Receptor. Trying
to avoid taking my desktop or a laptop and the 4x4 patchbay out in the real world.

I haven't flashed the OS since the latest version weeks ago.

I like the term Midi flood as it really describes that behavior quite well.

I'm really trying to avoid Midi with Linnstrument since for me it just makes much more sense to use USB.
Hoping someone in Receptor land might come up with some suggestions, I really have proven that's where the issue belongs.

Thanks again for your quick responses.
Cheers,
Dirk

oldgearguy · Post by **oldgearguy** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:22 pm

You can try turning off X, Y, Z in the per split settings and see if that helps. It really could be something as simple as to much info too fast

Dirk Diggler · Post by **Dirk Diggler** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:06 pm

Yep sadly already tried that too.

The same VST on the receptor on the same channel, straight in USB = hanging notes.
USB into computer, out 4x4 midi into Receptor, and all is good and plays as expected.

I have to believe it must be something they are not able to deal with on the internal conversion from USB to Midi in Receptor.

Again thanks for the responses, it helps me to realize I've pretty well isolated/trouble shot the issue. I was hoping I was missing something obvious.

Seems like no help from the Receptor side of things, seems like I need an equivalent of you (oldgearguy) over there.
I'm sure someone there will respond eventually, maybe It'll be best to just email Muse directly.

Cheers,
Dirk

oldgearguy · Post by **oldgearguy** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:48 pm

I've been looking at the initial output a lot (testing my stuff ya know...) and the **only** thing I could see that might be throwing Receptor for a loop is receiving a pitch bend message as the absolute first piece of MIDI data.

One thing you can try to rule that out -- hook up a synth with a pitch wheel that sends MIDI and after power on, move the pitch bender/wheel without sending a note and see what Receptor does.

Dirk Diggler · Post by **Dirk Diggler** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:31 pm

Well I was hoping, but no luck. Pitch wheel, Mod wheel, Volume knob, Aftertouch knob with no notes, no problem, it just showed the midi activity and that's it.

At some point I hope to dive into the whole Arduino world, but first things first.

Hope you're having fun with the inner workings.
Thanks again,
Dirk

Jaself · Post by **Jaself** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:15 am

Dirk Diggler wrote:have you had any success using the midi out of the Linnstrument?

As soon as I unhook the USB, plug in the Midi cable and then select midi out on the Linnstrument, the display on the Receptor goes crazy switching and loading presets and then crashing it. This is another issue I think, the only reason I tried Midi out was to try and troubleshoot the note hanging issue. Really baffling that as long as I go through the computer first everything is fine, but that defeats the ultimate goal of using both live.

I have several old (10-25 years) MIDI devices that I hooked up to LinnStrument via direct MIDI cable with no problems.

Are you running LinnStrument from USB power or from an ordinary power brick? Have you tried it in low power mode? Power up LinnStrument after connecting MIDI cable? Before Receptor or after? Starting with MIDI JACKS mode rather than switching into it?

Dirk Diggler · Post by **Dirk Diggler** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:36 pm

Thanks for the response Jaself. When attempting Midi I was using the power brick. I haven't tried low power mode, will try that tonight. I will also try the scenarios of powering up post midi connection and see if that might make a difference. Same with starting in Midi mode, good idea.

Thanks,
Dirk

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:22 pm

Dirk Diggler wrote:Ok here's the scenario, when I plug Linnstrument directly via USB into Receptor, I get hanging notes big time, it's basically unplayable this way.

Hi Dirk,

I have confirmed the same issue on older PC's. Mine exhibits this same issue on my home PC as well as on my Korg Kronos when plugged in and using USB only. If I switch to MIDI, the problem goes away. I brought it to work and it didn't have the issue on my work PC or a mac in the office. This confirms it's not a hardware issue which was my main fear.

The issue is the speed of your processor. The easy fix is to either use MIDI instead of USB *OR* you can turn off Y and Z mode (which does kill a little of the expressive functionality). I have spoken to Roger directly about this and hasn't been reported by anyone using a Mac so it looks like a PC issue only and only slower PC's.

Hope that helps. At least you're not alone...

-Mc

Dirk Diggler · Post by **Dirk Diggler** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:29 pm

Hey thanks for the reply Mc, to muddy the waters a little more, it's not an issue with my desktop, it's a Receptor, but I see where you're going with this. Actually the Receptor I have is a dual core 3.4, and my desktop is a quad core 3.2 .
Dirk

McHale · Post by **McHale** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:08 pm

Dirk Diggler wrote:Hey thanks for the reply Mc, to muddy the waters a little more, it's not an issue with my desktop, it's a Receptor, but I see where you're going with this. Actually the Receptor I have is a dual core 3.4, and my desktop is a quad core 3.2 .
Dirk

Sorry about that. For some reason I was assuming Receptor was a soft synth. Been a while since I've looked at one. But yah, your Receptor is doing exactly what my Kronos does. Basically, there's so much MIDI data being sent over USB it just gets overloaded. I was having severe stuck notes and even patch changes simply by pressing a single note. I'm still working on a solution to this that doesn't require turning off Y and Z axis that allows me to use this via USB only. I will post here if a solution is found.

-Mc

Dirk Diggler · Post by **Dirk Diggler** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:51 pm

Yes it is sort of a soft synth, well soft synth host at least.

No problem, I think these are all clues perhaps. And removing Y/Z control is like neutering the Linnstrument. The crazy thing is as long as I pass the USB through my desktop, all works as it should. So it has to be something in the conversion from USB to Midi in Receptor. And for me the midi path was way worse and crashed the Receptor as it was trying to change patches with every note.

I guess I will have to put in a support ticket at Muse for a workaround.
I'll let you know if I come with anything as well.
Cheers,
Dirk

Roger Linn Design

KVR Audio

Odd behavior with Linnstrument and Receptor 2+