Editing functions 'greyed out' for automation events / regions

[Ch00rD]

I'm wondering why most editing functions (i.e. toggle activated, cut, copy, paste, duplicate) seem not to be accessible ('greyed out') for automation events / regions (also note the greyed out 'Duplicate' button on the Inspector):



While these functions may seem self-evident, I still don't see how to actually use them. The User Manual does not even mention these editing functions at all in the chapter 'Automation' - I expected this to be explained (however succinctly) in section 8.1.2 "Drawing and Editing Automation".

Am I perhaps missing something here?

[harmoney]

well, the whole automation-concept should get a refresh:

-there is no way to delete all automations of a clip/an defined arrange-time or a whole track at once (even automation follows and u create an empty clip in the arrange, delete this clip... but all the auto-lines still there...

-the automation "Editor" should have also favorites and show all "fast-acces-buttons", to get fast-acces similar to the pan/pitch/gain,stretch... fast-chooser in the wave-editor (showing/hiding what u want as fast-buttons via "All" / Favorites like in the arrange-track-automation)

-a "clip-global" batching for loop on/off, start/endpoint

-a "mute" for automation which only mutes, but the prints let is they are (for single-lines, tracks, clips...)

-copy/paste from absolut to the relative brothers and to other parameters

and so on.

Automation (and its comfortable handling) is one of the most important features in modern Music/DAWs - all this suggestions above should be #one-to-do for 1.3.
the announced 1.2 things AND this advanced automation and a smarter vst-window-handling or screensets and i would say: Yeah, BWS is that Killer-DAW.

[Ch00rD]

I would agree about much of what you mention.

[...] advanced automation [...]

But I'm not talking about anything remotely "advanced" here - I'm simply talking about cut/copy/paste functions, the very basics of editing. And as long as even the simplest imaginable editing features seems to be completely dysfunctional, I don't think discussing any more advanced features is useful.

So, am I missing something here? Or is Bitwig really coded so poorly that even the most basic editing features simply don't work; where we have context menus mentioning functions that are not available at all? I can hardly believe that...

[u-u-u]

@Ch00rd: Try out the time selection tool on automation.
Then have a look what still might be missing and simply send them a request

[Ch00rD]

@Ch00rd: Try out the time selection tool on automation.
Then have a look what still might be missing and simply send them a request

Ah, selecting a region on the timeline with the time selection tool does indeed enable these functions for automation regions. That's certainly one thing I didn't see yet.

I still don't see how to do something similar for automation events, though. Anyone?

I'll certainly request whatever I find important but missing; however, at this point, I'm still a trying to learn how Bitwig actually behaves. So, thanks for your help!

[u-u-u]

I still don't see how to do something similar for automation events, though. Anyone?

I think it's not possible for just automation events.
You also can select events like this and duplicating or copying them wouldn't make much sense:

Selecting A-Events.jpg

If you want to have the copy/duplication starting exactly at one event and ending exactly at another I recommend selecting one point and then do it like this (works on Windows):
1. Select some automation events.
2. Use the arrow keys (<- and ->) to move to the point where you want the selection to start.
3. Use Shift+Arrow keys (<- and ->) to select all the other events you want to copy.
4. Press '2' to select the time selection tool.
5. Now the time selection should start and end exactly at the desired automation events.
6. Now copy/duplicate as you want.

(just noted that you also could start right with the time selection tool.)

[PolaroidThePenguin]

Yeah... Automation is probably my single biggest issue I have with Bitwig. It's slow, seems unresponsive, very clunky and at times confusing. Automation should be the single fastest thing on board and it must be intuitive, but it kind of isn't. Too much annoying clicking to get it right, too much messing about. The time selection tool is ok, but it's precise and easy only when you zoom in JUST right. And the zoom lacks as we all know. It also tends to freeze the audio engine from time to time while copying. For what reason, I don't know... haven't had any issues with automation anywhere else. Other than that, it gets the job done... eventually.

[Ch00rD]

I still don't see how to do something similar for automation events, though. Anyone?

I think it's not possible for just automation events.

But then why would BWS ever display a context menu explicitly mentioning automation event(s)? It makes no sense... to me, anyway.

You also can select events like this and duplicating or copying them wouldn't make much sense:

Selecting A-Events.jpg

Well, it makes enough sense to me that I should at least be able to copy them, cut them, or toggle their mute state; duplicating perhaps not (but even that is debatable, imho).

Moreover, even if there would be some specific ambiguous or problematic corner cases where it makes sense to prevent the user from performing specific actions, I still don't see why that should prevent the user from doing something completely straightforward, like copying a single envelope point/event, or a set of adjacent envelope points/events.

I still have the feeling I'm missing something that should be completely obvious and intuitive.

If you want to have the copy/duplication starting exactly at one event and ending exactly at another I recommend selecting one point and then do it like this (works on Windows):
1. Select some automation events.
2. Use the arrow keys (<- and ->) to move to the point where you want the selection to start.
3. Use Shift+Arrow keys (<- and ->) to select all the other events you want to copy.
4. Press '2' to select the time selection tool.
5. Now the time selection should start and end exactly at the desired automation events.
6. Now copy/duplicate as you want.

(just noted that you also could start right with the time selection tool.)

Thanks for explaining this technique, and for answering my question.

[ri0t]

Deleting all the automation of a track works like this:
* Open all automation lanes
* Select a time selection over all the to be deleted lanes
* Hit Delete -> all gone

Copying absolute to relative automation works, but only in the dedicated automation editor.

The grayed out menu items will be dealt with, soon