Channel lineup / order: Comp, limiter, eq? Or?
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 3450 posts since 19 Aug, 2008 from USA-lien In the 8th Dimention
What say you?
In what order do you use the comp. Limitor, eq, etc. On your mixer channels? Same for master channel?
Is there an industry standard for mix/ mastering engeneers?
Thanks
In what order do you use the comp. Limitor, eq, etc. On your mixer channels? Same for master channel?
Is there an industry standard for mix/ mastering engeneers?
Thanks
-
- KVRist
- 441 posts since 7 Mar, 2011 from Pleasanton, CA
My first two plugs are usually a channel eq to high cut and low cut as necessary, and a gain plug to trim the input as necessary.
For vocals, a gate would be next; after that would be a compressor. A character eq would often go next.
Other channels are similar. LC/HC - trim - comp - eq. That seems to be my standard.
For the drum bus, it's always The Glue. For kicks it's almost always Supercharger GT. For shares, it's almost always The Rocket or Major Tom or maybe NI VC 76 or VC 160.
I've settled on more or less a standard chain for each instrument and bus, but it really does vary based on the material.
I always master in a separate Logic session, and my mastering chain varies a bit as well, but it's usually something like:
Pro-Q for a mid-side low cut for rumble
Eq432 (or maybe PSP MasterQ 2) for subtle character boosts and cuts
Bx_digital for some surgical cuts
Elysia Alpha and/or Kotelnikov for gentle compression
PSP Xenon for final limiting
I've been really happy with this chain, and it's actually been a lot of fun discovering it. I rather enjoy mastering.
For vocals, a gate would be next; after that would be a compressor. A character eq would often go next.
Other channels are similar. LC/HC - trim - comp - eq. That seems to be my standard.
For the drum bus, it's always The Glue. For kicks it's almost always Supercharger GT. For shares, it's almost always The Rocket or Major Tom or maybe NI VC 76 or VC 160.
I've settled on more or less a standard chain for each instrument and bus, but it really does vary based on the material.
I always master in a separate Logic session, and my mastering chain varies a bit as well, but it's usually something like:
Pro-Q for a mid-side low cut for rumble
Eq432 (or maybe PSP MasterQ 2) for subtle character boosts and cuts
Bx_digital for some surgical cuts
Elysia Alpha and/or Kotelnikov for gentle compression
PSP Xenon for final limiting
I've been really happy with this chain, and it's actually been a lot of fun discovering it. I rather enjoy mastering.
Seasoned IT vet, Mac user, and lover of music. Always learning.
- KVRAF
- 5131 posts since 22 Jul, 2006 from Tasmania, Australia
- KVRAF
- 4590 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw
I would always put dynamics after EQ in a channel. EQ, especially with lowpass on, can severly distort your transients.
Not to mention that all substractive synths have ADSR after filter for that reason.
On the other hand, heavy limiter can add DC content, but you can remove it later in master chain.
Not to mention that all substractive synths have ADSR after filter for that reason.
On the other hand, heavy limiter can add DC content, but you can remove it later in master chain.
Blog ------------- YouTube channel
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
- KVRAF
- 4427 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell
anyway you want. and i don't use limiters at all. only a clipper on the master bus, catching an occasional peak. but i don't squash my music to death and don't care about "loudness", so what do i know.
I don't know what to write here that won't be censored, as I can only speak in profanity.
-
Dean Aka Nekro Dean Aka Nekro https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=162100
- KVRAF
- 6179 posts since 4 Oct, 2007 from Escaped At Last
Any order you see fit and totally to please yourself. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise
I usually start with a metering tool then a gain plugin quickly followed by filters to get rid of unwanted/uneeded information, Then a noise gate/expander if needed (I'm often working with multi mic'd stuff, So it usually is required), Whatever saturation/mojo device I usually slot in after that, A surgical equalizer usually comes next for cutting/subtractive equalization use only, Then whatever style of compressor if needed would follow or perhaps a transient shaper/designer. Sometimes I will then have a "character" EQ for broader shaping of the signal. Another gain plugin if needed aswell as another metering tool.
After that all tracks get grouped and sent/bussed off for further processing and effects treatments elsehwere
I don't always stick to that order though and it is always dependent upon the source signals, If I have the sound working right within the mix but it is to hot then I'll try to trim it with the gain plugin, I don't remember the last time I reached for a peak-limiter to deal with such a problem, Just revise and rebalance of the offending track and those it is competing with does the trick
All the best to all as always
Dean
I usually start with a metering tool then a gain plugin quickly followed by filters to get rid of unwanted/uneeded information, Then a noise gate/expander if needed (I'm often working with multi mic'd stuff, So it usually is required), Whatever saturation/mojo device I usually slot in after that, A surgical equalizer usually comes next for cutting/subtractive equalization use only, Then whatever style of compressor if needed would follow or perhaps a transient shaper/designer. Sometimes I will then have a "character" EQ for broader shaping of the signal. Another gain plugin if needed aswell as another metering tool.
After that all tracks get grouped and sent/bussed off for further processing and effects treatments elsehwere
I don't always stick to that order though and it is always dependent upon the source signals, If I have the sound working right within the mix but it is to hot then I'll try to trim it with the gain plugin, I don't remember the last time I reached for a peak-limiter to deal with such a problem, Just revise and rebalance of the offending track and those it is competing with does the trick
All the best to all as always
Dean
-
- KVRAF
- 7383 posts since 17 Feb, 2005
A compressor before an EQ can work on some material. Usually, the material is already compressed and EQed.
I almost always end up doing something like EQ/comp/EQ. Then there was that one time I EQ/comp/EQ/comp/EQ/comp/EQ/comp - ed. (only did it with 8 plugins cuz that's all one FL mixer track allows)
I almost always end up doing something like EQ/comp/EQ. Then there was that one time I EQ/comp/EQ/comp/EQ/comp/EQ/comp - ed. (only did it with 8 plugins cuz that's all one FL mixer track allows)
-
Dean Aka Nekro Dean Aka Nekro https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=162100
- KVRAF
- 6179 posts since 4 Oct, 2007 from Escaped At Last
I will sometimes "commit" to mic'd and/or line signals with some outboard compression applied (albeit often rather mild), Which can really help, An example being an old, battered Joemeek SC2 on bass guitar and vocals (Well grunting, screaming, yelling...etc. which some people could easily argue aren't actually vocals ), dbx 160A, dbx 286s and 266XL on drum kit pieces and FMR Audio Really Nice compressor and Really Nice Levelling Amplifier which sound great on everything. Combined with mic placement that usually saves me alot of work further down the line. Nothing flashy or expensive, I picked up some Drawmer units (even though I already had some of their compressors and/or gates) after chatting with and hearing some examples by the ever helpful and knowledgeable Shy here on KVR, Which can be had for peanuts.camsr wrote:A compressor before an EQ can work on some material. Usually, the material is already compressed and EQed.
I almost always end up doing something like EQ/comp/EQ. Then there was that one time I EQ/comp/EQ/comp/EQ/comp/EQ/comp - ed. (only did it with 8 plugins cuz that's all one FL mixer track allows)
If your 8-chain EQ/Comp setup worked for the task, That is all that really matters. Results speak for themselves over what is considered perhaps "far too much" by the conservative type of engineers, Who are any of them to tell you or anybody else what is right or worse what is wrong for them? It really gets on my wick when I see/read or hear someone say "Well you can't or shouldn't do that because stuff"...Well let them try whatever they want and find out for themselves, That's what leads to creativity and practices which push things forwards/have our own revelations. Trying to stiffle that takes the fun out of things (Obviously I don't mean things where damage can occur, Like encouraging someone with an all-valve amplifier head to hook it up to something without a load for it to see and its done for or being careless with exposing people and one's self to dangerous SPLs that can/will cause hearing damage...etc.)
Nice one Camsr, All the best your way
Dean
- KVRian
- 551 posts since 28 Jul, 2011 from USA
I tend to do EQ cuts before compression (the compressor doesn't have to work as hard) and EQ boosts after (don't want to compress what I just boosted).
-
- KVRAF
- 7383 posts since 17 Feb, 2005
Here is something I did recently, just for fun, experimenting with using a minimal set of FX processors, some of them I built myself.
http://www.filehostfree.com/?d=553AEFE81 download link is kinda hard to find, it's orange.
But I use at least 5 eq and dynamics processors, at various stages, and clipping, distortion, and filtering.
The loudness matching kinda makes the processed sound different on first impression.
http://www.filehostfree.com/?d=553AEFE81 download link is kinda hard to find, it's orange.
But I use at least 5 eq and dynamics processors, at various stages, and clipping, distortion, and filtering.
The loudness matching kinda makes the processed sound different on first impression.
-
- KVRAF
- 3080 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN
That's a great idea.Greg Houston wrote:I tend to do EQ cuts before compression (the compressor doesn't have to work as hard) and EQ boosts after (don't want to compress what I just boosted).
- KVRian
- 581 posts since 21 Feb, 2005 from Upper Left USA
To me it's always in order of importance for whatever channel it happens to go on. If I hear a frequency issue on a track before I hear a dynamic one, I put an EQ first. If something sounds too dynamic right off the bat, I'll compress and then see if I maybe need an EQ. It's all about fixing problems I actually hear, versus trying to anticipate issues that might not even be there in the first place.
-
- KVRAF
- 4907 posts since 10 Aug, 2004 from Colorado Springs
Greg Houston wrote:I tend to do EQ cuts before compression (the compressor doesn't have to work as hard) and EQ boosts after (don't want to compress what I just boosted).
For some hardware evidence of the above, take a look at any mixing desks with effects built in, or at least some DSP. You'll typically find a low cut/high pass filter switch or control, then channel gain, then parametric eq then dynamics processing, then other effects, if all of these are on-board.
This doesn't mean that you have to do the order this way, but it is fairly conventional for good reason (that Greg Houston said above), if you are looking for your dynamics processing to be 'transparent'.
Here's a slightly different way of thinking about it:
Both EQ and Compression are often employed to 'even out' the signal in a sense, unless you are using either for the opposite reason. EQ is very often used to tame a rogue frequency due to some resonance, and compression is used to tame over-zealous time signal 'spikes' relative to less loud parts of the time signal. It is easier, and less noisy, to use EQ first, then dynamics processing second, so it doesn't have to go into action as often.
-
- KVRist
- 106 posts since 22 Mar, 2011
For what it's worth, my go to process is
Subtractive EQ - get rid of what I don't want (Ableton EQ8)
Compressor - only if needed, almost always a gentle squeeze or just to get rid of a couple of peaks (Ableton Compressor)
Distortion - get a nice tone (Almost always Decapitator or Supercharger GT)
Additive EQ - Analog style EQ to make certain aspects come alive (I use 2 plug based on a massive passive or a neve)
Probably some more subtractive EQ at the final mix stage.
If there's some creative FX other than distortion then I will usually add in another subtractive EQ after that just to get rid of any unwanted extras!
Simple is good
Subtractive EQ - get rid of what I don't want (Ableton EQ8)
Compressor - only if needed, almost always a gentle squeeze or just to get rid of a couple of peaks (Ableton Compressor)
Distortion - get a nice tone (Almost always Decapitator or Supercharger GT)
Additive EQ - Analog style EQ to make certain aspects come alive (I use 2 plug based on a massive passive or a neve)
Probably some more subtractive EQ at the final mix stage.
If there's some creative FX other than distortion then I will usually add in another subtractive EQ after that just to get rid of any unwanted extras!
Simple is good