NI just layered fancy presets?

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Don't most of Native Instruments Wow factor emerge from a bunch of layered sounds that renders itself almost unusable within the context of a track seeking direction from the producer?

With all the great free synthesizers and effects floating the cloud, is it not possible to build sounds that could rival the Native Instruments palette?

I haven't been making music for a decade now. I don't even have a computer (netbook doesn't count) for music production, but from what I remember the free stuff are not inferior, they are mostly barebones but with a lot of potential!

What I want to know is that when you strip the emperor away from all it's cloths, in essence are they not just a bunch of sine, saw, tri, square waves and when compared from that point of view how different are they really?

Do they have better AD converters that aggregates to a better sound palette? Seriously I want to know.

A good lesson I have learn from on of my great teachers, Freud; Psychology is the relationship between the rider and his horse. The horse has the locomotive energy but the rider must be the one giving direction otherwise we are whirling in a vortex of sounds presenting us with awesome flares tricking us to go this way or that when all I wanted to do was pump out some deep techno.

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After years of using freeware only, i can safely say that, no, it's neither of the same quality nor has it the same feature set as payware. There is damn good freeware, like Charlatan, which is absolutely up to par in terms of sound quality, but the feature set is very limited, which is no wonder as there are no programmers doing their job full time behind it. And NI's stuff is not so popular for nothing. If they wouldn't deliver quality, people wouldn't keep on buying the stuff. As simple as that.

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I make contrast with NI because because they are one of the best sounding software instruments I have heard.

I've been contemplating buying the Komplete 10 but I think better to restart with freeware put money towards room acoustic treatment instead.

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My intention is not to start flame. I was just reflecting on the positive side of not throwing a load of money.
Last edited by Bass6 on Sun May 17, 2015 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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I guess it largely depends on what you want to go for. I wouldn't need Komplete, because i don't need all the intruments, effects, and especially i don't need the large sample library. But i thought more than once about buying Massive used. And i have yet to hear a freeware delay which sounds as well, and handles as well as Replika. Yes, it also was freeware for a limited time, but it's more than likely that they will release it as payware one day, like the other christmas gifts from them. Really quality stuff. And when it comes to synth plugins, it's even more obvious. There simply is no freeware which compares to the likes of Spire, Largo, Zebra or whatever. Synth1 is ok, but it's neither comparable sound quality, nor feature wise. The magware version of Dune 1 is pretty good though.

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Bass6 wrote:I regret posting this thread. I will be happy if Mod can delete.
Don't. My reply was a bit harsh too, and i apologize. Already deleted the part about what you want to prove, that was rude and unasked for. Perfectly fine to do such a thread without people attacking.

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For every NI product there is a better alternative from another developer.

But I honestly don't get what you mean by layered, NI instruments as many other synths hace variois oscilators and effects. Layered sounds is when you layer sounds from two or more instruments.
dedication to flying

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There are a few freeware synths that sound good.

Here is a small list of them.

Anti Transpirant 1000
ART Pyrite
Charlatan
Daedalus
OBXD
Olga
Or2V
Podolski
Ragnarok
Scrooo
Sonigen Modular
Synth1
TAL Bassline
TAL Elek7ro II
TAL Noisemaker
TAL U No 62
Tyrell N6

If you listen to some of the OSC entries featuring a few of these synths, you'll hear the kind of music you can make with them.

Here's the problem.

The amount of work required to get something decent out of them is enormous in comparison to synths that are full featured, even the ones that sound wise aren't up to par with the greatest sounding synths.

For example, A.N.A. is probably one of the worst sounding payware synths out there and yet it is still easier to get a good sound of it it than almost all freeware synths.

"You get what you pay for" is a cliche for a reason. In most cases, it's true.

Can you put together a quality recording with free stuff? Yeah, I suppose.

Just be prepared to work your tail off to get it done.

And then, with that being said, there are still many payware synths that just blow the free stuff out of the water sound wise.

You are simply not going to get the sound you can get out of synths like...

Zebra 2
Diva
Serum
Dune 2

just to name a few, out of a free synth.

Not if you stood on your head, prayed to the sine wave gods and whistled Dixie.

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PSSST....i'll let you in on a little secret. its not how much you pay for your synths
that make your music sound good, its the effects you run them through and your
mixing and mastering tools and ability to use them.

i did this as kind of a joke that you dont need 500 dollar vsts
to sound like you used 500 dollar vsts..... its done with all
freeware and older 32bit synths and all freeware effects and mastering tools.

https://soundcloud.com/layzerkvr/layzer-jam

yeah, theres no way i'm ever going to sound like this dude that used DIVA on his track
using freeware synths. not a chance.
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 4&t=437931
Last edited by layzer on Sun May 17, 2015 8:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]

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Bass6 wrote:Don't most of Native Instruments Wow factor emerge from a bunch of layered sounds that renders itself almost unusable within the context of a track seeking direction from the producer?
I think the same applies to many synths. A lot of presets are unusable in the context of being part of track - they're there to show off the synths capabilities mainly. Yes - one can use many of the good freeware synths to build patches that rival the best payware. I remember trying to match Sylenth patches with Synth1 one day when I was bored. Most of the time I could get it extremely close - although I did have to use multiple instances in some cases to achieve the 'thicker' sound Sylenth has.
Mastering from £30 per track \\\
Facebook \\\ #masteredbyloz

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what do you mean .."just" layered fancy presets?!

-> shrubbery

of course, most readers will miss that "ni" is a rudimentary masonic semantic,
you come and go, you come and go. amitabha neither a follower nor a leader be tagore "where roads are made i lose my way" where there is certainty, consideration is absent.

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I hear always that NI presets are not usable ..etc, but not all. For me about quarter of them are very usable and this is a large amount indeed. I especially like the old presets from FM7, Absynth 3/4 but for Massive I like some pads and basses.

Like chk071, I don't need all of Komplete. I have only the 3 synths (which they sounded completely different). They cover about 70% of what I need from sounds. No freeware can replace them IMO (not even a commercial one!). I have their gifts (Replica, Driver and Supercharger) and I have Battery 4 (which also is incredible).

There is a very underrated freeware from NI, and that is Carbon 2 which only needs a Reaktor player (which is free of course).

I used only free software + (only Reaper 3 -> 4 was evaluation version) for about one year. I learnt subtractive synthesis with Synth1 mainly but used really the best of the freeware that time (I also used CM soft that came with the magazines I bought that time). It was a very good experience and I could make some music with it, so I'm with you for starting with Freeware first. Later if you will know what you need exactly or what you miss.

NI, u-he, Arturia..etc all are famous because they have produced quality instruments. You might not like all their products, but sure you will have favourites among them. In the end be free, use what you like (free or/and commercial). We are lucky to live in such era that there are free good instruments and affordable quality commercial ones.

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rod_zero wrote:For every NI product there is a better alternative from another developer.
And yet a large portion of people would say in contrast when looking at other developers "i can already do that as well if not better using komplete"
NI are an enigma, terrible company great products.
Duh

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Bass6 wrote:Do they have better AD converters that aggregates to a better sound palette?
Huh ? :?
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Teksonik wrote:
Bass6 wrote:Do they have better AD converters that aggregates to a better sound palette?
Huh ? :?
only if they come with their own soundcard?
HW SYNTHS [KORG T2EX - AKAI AX80 - YAMAHA SY77 - ENSONIQ VFX]
HW MODULES [OBi M1000 - ROLAND MKS-50 - ROLAND JV880 - KURZ 1000PX]
SW [CHARLATAN - OBXD - OXE - ELEKTRO - MICROTERA - M1 - SURGE - RMiV]
DAW [ENERGY XT2/1U RACK WINXP / MAUDIO 1010LT PCI]

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