Sounds good!
What host are you using Aalto in for this video?
I think it would be really useful to make some basic short videos showing setting up the Linnstrument in various hosts and playing something with it and then doing a bit of editing.
Also, I am confused about what it means that some synths such as Bazille and Diva, plus Aalto support note per channel. Does that mean that Bitwig 1.2 which only supports internal devices will work for those vst's because they have added support?
How about using something like Logic? In what way does using Aalto differ than another vst synth?
Geert said Cubase supports vst2 synths and note expression... then why does it matter what support Aalto or Diva added if every synth is supported?
I've been trying to understand these things for a couple months now and still find the subject kinda vague. The Linnstrument webpage does not mention Tracktion which supports note expression. Someone else said Reaper does as well.
I own Live, Tracktion and Reaper. I almost exclusively use Live. I sometimes use a simple M4L device (from the M4L user-library) in Live that does round robin... you can create X tracks and each note you play will go to the next track, cycling through the tracks. Would this make it possible to have poly expression with the Linnstrument in Live? I imagine editing would be a pain.
Have you folks tried out Tracktion to see how well it works? No offense meant, but it seems like you all could do a better job of making clear, step by step information about the different hosts available for potential buyers.
New video
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- KVRist
- 431 posts since 16 Nov, 2009 from Asheville, NC
Well, I decided to bite through it and take some time to record a video with LinnStrument, Cubase and DIVA.
Hope this answers many of your questions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLOJ3cIDVBg
I've tried Tracktion, it's a great DAW but for now only supports Seaboard's custom protocol with sysex afaik. I'm pretty confident that in time they will support MPE instead, which LinnStrument also supports.
Take care,
Geert
Hope this answers many of your questions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLOJ3cIDVBg
I've tried Tracktion, it's a great DAW but for now only supports Seaboard's custom protocol with sysex afaik. I'm pretty confident that in time they will support MPE instead, which LinnStrument also supports.
Take care,
Geert
Moog software - LinnStrument - RackBlox - CableCube - Knobotron - Eigenharp Alpha/Tau/Pico - SendMIDI / ReceiveMIDI - MIDI Tape Recorder - Geco MIDI Leap - Steelstring Guitar - Electric Guitar - Vocals - Dynamod Games - Kung-fu
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- KVRAF
- 2490 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
Hi pdxindy,
I will try below to answer your questions that weren't specifically answered in Geert's new video.
Q: What host are you using Aalto in for this video?
A: I used Logic Pro X, which very nicely passes the MIDI channel information along to the plug-in.
Q: I think it would be really useful to make some basic short videos showing setting up the Linnstrument in various hosts and playing something with it and then doing a bit of editing.
Q: The Linnstrument webpage does not mention Tracktion which supports note expression. Someone else said Reaper does as well.
Q: Have you folks tried out Tracktion to see how well it works? No offense meant, but it seems like you all could do a better job of making clear, step by step information about the different hosts available for potential buyers.
A: No offense taken. You're right and I apologize for not having more videos. The basic problem is that there are a lot of DAWs and plug-ins and my company is just me (and Geert as an outside contractor) at this time, so time and resources are tight. But I'll try to make more as soon as I can.
Q: I am confused about what it means that some synths such as Bazille and Diva, plus Aalto support note per channel.
Q: How about using something like Logic? In what way does using Aalto differ than another vst synth?
A: It means that the plug-in can be set up so that each voice receives from a separate MIDI channel, permitting 3 dimensions of expression (usually pressure/loudness, X/pitch and Y/timbre) independently for each touch. However, this is only possible if the DAW passes the controller's received MIDI channel information to the plug-in. Logic, Cubase and many others do. Live doesn't; it strips away the MIDI channel from each received MIDI event, preventing plug-ins that permit channel-per-note operation from using that capability.
Q: Does that mean that Bitwig 1.2 which only supports internal devices will work for those vst's because they have added support?
A: I don't know much about Bitwig 1.2's support for plug-ins other than internal devices. I just tried U-He Bazille with BW1.2 and it works but I wasn't able to get it to do polyphonic expression/bends. I don't yet know if that's a fixed limitation or if I merely don't know what setting to change. If you ask them and learn the answer, can you let me know?
Q: I almost exclusively use Live. I sometimes use a simple M4L device (from the M4L user-library) in Live that does round robin... you can create X tracks and each note you play will go to the next track, cycling through the tracks. Would this make it possible to have poly expression with the Linnstrument in Live? I imagine editing would be a pain.
A: Unfortunately, because Live strips away the MIDI channel information from each received MIDI event, there's nothing you can do in M4L or otherwise to restore the missing MIDI channel information. The M4L event that does round-robin will merely take each incoming note and assign it to a new track, which won't help. By the way, Live also strips away all received Polyphonic Pressure messages, so you can't even get polyphonic pressure in a single channel, even if a plug-in in Live supports it. Live is a wonderful software tool, but unfortunately these 2 omissions make it the worst DAW for polyphonic expressive instruments like LinnStrument.
You're welcome to contact me directly if you'd prefer a real time call. You can reach me either at support@rogerlinndesign.com or 510 666-6930. We're closed today for Labor Day but I'll be available tomorrow (Sept
.
I will try below to answer your questions that weren't specifically answered in Geert's new video.
Q: What host are you using Aalto in for this video?
A: I used Logic Pro X, which very nicely passes the MIDI channel information along to the plug-in.
Q: I think it would be really useful to make some basic short videos showing setting up the Linnstrument in various hosts and playing something with it and then doing a bit of editing.
Q: The Linnstrument webpage does not mention Tracktion which supports note expression. Someone else said Reaper does as well.
Q: Have you folks tried out Tracktion to see how well it works? No offense meant, but it seems like you all could do a better job of making clear, step by step information about the different hosts available for potential buyers.
A: No offense taken. You're right and I apologize for not having more videos. The basic problem is that there are a lot of DAWs and plug-ins and my company is just me (and Geert as an outside contractor) at this time, so time and resources are tight. But I'll try to make more as soon as I can.
Q: I am confused about what it means that some synths such as Bazille and Diva, plus Aalto support note per channel.
Q: How about using something like Logic? In what way does using Aalto differ than another vst synth?
A: It means that the plug-in can be set up so that each voice receives from a separate MIDI channel, permitting 3 dimensions of expression (usually pressure/loudness, X/pitch and Y/timbre) independently for each touch. However, this is only possible if the DAW passes the controller's received MIDI channel information to the plug-in. Logic, Cubase and many others do. Live doesn't; it strips away the MIDI channel from each received MIDI event, preventing plug-ins that permit channel-per-note operation from using that capability.
Q: Does that mean that Bitwig 1.2 which only supports internal devices will work for those vst's because they have added support?
A: I don't know much about Bitwig 1.2's support for plug-ins other than internal devices. I just tried U-He Bazille with BW1.2 and it works but I wasn't able to get it to do polyphonic expression/bends. I don't yet know if that's a fixed limitation or if I merely don't know what setting to change. If you ask them and learn the answer, can you let me know?
Q: I almost exclusively use Live. I sometimes use a simple M4L device (from the M4L user-library) in Live that does round robin... you can create X tracks and each note you play will go to the next track, cycling through the tracks. Would this make it possible to have poly expression with the Linnstrument in Live? I imagine editing would be a pain.
A: Unfortunately, because Live strips away the MIDI channel information from each received MIDI event, there's nothing you can do in M4L or otherwise to restore the missing MIDI channel information. The M4L event that does round-robin will merely take each incoming note and assign it to a new track, which won't help. By the way, Live also strips away all received Polyphonic Pressure messages, so you can't even get polyphonic pressure in a single channel, even if a plug-in in Live supports it. Live is a wonderful software tool, but unfortunately these 2 omissions make it the worst DAW for polyphonic expressive instruments like LinnStrument.
You're welcome to contact me directly if you'd prefer a real time call. You can reach me either at support@rogerlinndesign.com or 510 666-6930. We're closed today for Labor Day but I'll be available tomorrow (Sept
.-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 25420 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Hi Roger,
Thanks for the prompt reply... With a company made up of just yourself, I can understand why some videos have not happened yet!
With Logic Pro, how is Aalto (or Bazille) set up? In the Cubase video that Geert made, all the notes played are easily edited. How is that handled in Logic? I read that it is not as elegant as Cubase, but I'm not sure exactly how that is so.
I've asked in the Bitwig forum a couple times and also sent a message but received no reply. I don't have a definitive answer, but it seems Bitwig is only functional for built-in instruments. Bitwig is the option I most wished worked because it is closest to a replacement for Live and also works with Push (which I own and use a lot). Who knows how long it will be before Bitwig supports VST's and Linnstrument.
It seems my options are Logic or Cubase.
Thanks for the prompt reply... With a company made up of just yourself, I can understand why some videos have not happened yet!
With Logic Pro, how is Aalto (or Bazille) set up? In the Cubase video that Geert made, all the notes played are easily edited. How is that handled in Logic? I read that it is not as elegant as Cubase, but I'm not sure exactly how that is so.
I've asked in the Bitwig forum a couple times and also sent a message but received no reply. I don't have a definitive answer, but it seems Bitwig is only functional for built-in instruments. Bitwig is the option I most wished worked because it is closest to a replacement for Live and also works with Push (which I own and use a lot). Who knows how long it will be before Bitwig supports VST's and Linnstrument.
It seems my options are Logic or Cubase.
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- KVRAF
- 2490 posts since 8 Jun, 2010
- Roger Linn Design
Hi pdxindy,
Q: With Logic Pro, how is Aalto (or Bazille) set up?
A: I simply created an Instrument track and added either Aalto or Bazille to it. Logic by default routes the received MIDI messages along with their channels to the plug-in.
With Aalto, I loaded the same patch file from our Recommended Sound Generators page, but you may need to click the little gear icon in the upper left corner of the Aalto window and select "Input Protocol > MIDI MPE".
With Bazille, there's nothing to set up-- it automatically plays each voice from a separate MIDI channel. You can use the 6 example files available for download from our Recommended Sound Generators page.
Q: How is [note editing] handled in Logic?
A: To be honest, I don't know because I never use detailed event editing in the DAW with LinnStrument. The reason is that with 3 dimensions of continuous MIDI streams for each note, it's simply too much work to edit it. I find it easier to simply practice a little and play it live. I realize that this method isn't right for everyone, but one of the fundamental design tenets of LinnStrument is to provide a level of expressive control equal to that of fine acoustic instruments, so that musicians can develop a level of virtuosic performance skill that wasn't before possible on electronic controllers, but that level of expressive control is a whole lot of continuous data to edit.
I don't actually know very much yet about Bitwig 1.2. If it doesn't pass the MIDI channel information to plug-ins, that's news to me. There are so many hundreds of plug-ins and DAWs on the market that it's difficult to have the time to learn the plusses and minuses of them all, but I'll try to gradually get through the major ones.
One piece of good news about Bitwig is that I'll be giving all LinnStrument owners a free license for Bitwig 8-track, which is a limited version of Bitwig Studio. I'll just need a week or two to get around to it.
If you're looking for detailed post-performance editing, then Cubase might be your best bet at the moment.
Q: With Logic Pro, how is Aalto (or Bazille) set up?
A: I simply created an Instrument track and added either Aalto or Bazille to it. Logic by default routes the received MIDI messages along with their channels to the plug-in.
With Aalto, I loaded the same patch file from our Recommended Sound Generators page, but you may need to click the little gear icon in the upper left corner of the Aalto window and select "Input Protocol > MIDI MPE".
With Bazille, there's nothing to set up-- it automatically plays each voice from a separate MIDI channel. You can use the 6 example files available for download from our Recommended Sound Generators page.
Q: How is [note editing] handled in Logic?
A: To be honest, I don't know because I never use detailed event editing in the DAW with LinnStrument. The reason is that with 3 dimensions of continuous MIDI streams for each note, it's simply too much work to edit it. I find it easier to simply practice a little and play it live. I realize that this method isn't right for everyone, but one of the fundamental design tenets of LinnStrument is to provide a level of expressive control equal to that of fine acoustic instruments, so that musicians can develop a level of virtuosic performance skill that wasn't before possible on electronic controllers, but that level of expressive control is a whole lot of continuous data to edit.
I don't actually know very much yet about Bitwig 1.2. If it doesn't pass the MIDI channel information to plug-ins, that's news to me. There are so many hundreds of plug-ins and DAWs on the market that it's difficult to have the time to learn the plusses and minuses of them all, but I'll try to gradually get through the major ones.
One piece of good news about Bitwig is that I'll be giving all LinnStrument owners a free license for Bitwig 8-track, which is a limited version of Bitwig Studio. I'll just need a week or two to get around to it.
If you're looking for detailed post-performance editing, then Cubase might be your best bet at the moment.
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- KVRist
- 51 posts since 27 Nov, 2012
Q: How is [note editing] handled in Logic?
The keys to detailed midi editing in Logic Pro X are the Midi Draw functionality.... along with the Note and Event editors
A brief overview of LPX's Midi editing can be found here...
http://www.musictech.net/2014/06/logic-pu-10/
Along with a fairly reasonable tutorial video found here..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bk315sFOeE
Cheers..
Nigel
The keys to detailed midi editing in Logic Pro X are the Midi Draw functionality.... along with the Note and Event editors
A brief overview of LPX's Midi editing can be found here...
http://www.musictech.net/2014/06/logic-pu-10/
Along with a fairly reasonable tutorial video found here..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bk315sFOeE
Cheers..
Nigel
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- KVRer
- 26 posts since 21 Aug, 2015
Hi Roger! Is it possible to know, if this happened? Is Bitwig 8-track now available to LinnStrument owners? I'd love to be able to make sounds out of Linnstrument right out of the box.Roger_Linn wrote:One piece of good news about Bitwig is that I'll be giving all LinnStrument owners a free license for Bitwig 8-track, which is a limited version of Bitwig Studio. I'll just need a week or two to get around to it.
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- KVRer
- 26 posts since 27 Nov, 2009
It is. From an email sent on the 5 of October
1) Free Bitwig 8-Track License for all LinnStrument owners, past and future
All LinnStrument owners are entitled to a free license for the new Bitwig 8-Track 1.2, which includes the Polyphonic Expression capabilities of the full Bitwig Studio 1.2. This means that all of Bitwig's included instruments are all now capable of full 3D polyphonic expression when used with LinnStrument's Channel Per Note mode. LinnStrument owners who would like a license now or anytime in future can email me (Roger) at support@rogerlinndesign.com and I'll reply with a license and the download link.
If you bought your LinnStrument from a dealer and haven't yet registered your dealer purchase, please do so now on our site (in the lower left corner of any page) then write me at support@rogerlinndesign.com with your name and LinnStrument serial number to get your license.
