KVR Audio

JD Young · Post by **JD Young** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:45 pm

Hi all,

Noiz-Lab is cross platform now! We have been testing our 7-step mastering suite on PC for a while, and we’ve gotten a lot of help from the people on the forum. Because of that we are now in the final stages of development and have also finished our AU and VST versions for Mac, 64bit and 32bit (AAX will follow later). They all come with a proper installer now too.

It would be a great help to us, if some of the Mac users on the forum would give our beta a try as well. We do not expect any more bugs, but to be sure we want to try our plug-in bundle on as many systems as we can. Besides that we are of course very interested in your opinion about our plug-ins and the 7-step mastering ‘method’ that comes with them in the form of a 20 page ‘quickstart’ manual.

You can go to http://www.noiz-lab.com for more information about our mastering suite, or directly to http://www.noiz-lab.com/try-it-now to get a download link. if you have any questions or suggestions about our 7-step mastering suite, don’t hesitate to contact me at JD@noiz-lab.com. Any help is welcome.

All the best,

JD

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:48 am

Just joined. Looking forward to this

Multi DAW mac user with 2 macs. Can test thoroughly.

Just wanted to let you know an issue with your website. On safari 7.1.7 (latest for mavericks) and osx 10.9.5, having your website open consistently locks up the machine with a spinning wheel for medium length intervals. Every change, every click, every text entered, repeats the lock up again, then you have to wait for it to free up. I never experienced this with any website before so I thought i better let you know that it's not mac friendly, not here at least. I just booted the computer up so ram is fresh and 70% free

JD Young · Post by **JD Young** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:37 am

Hi TheoM,

Wow, thanks for the feedback regarding our website. We were not aware of this issue… I’ll look into it as soon as possible! I’m curious what you think of the plug-ins. Thanks for your help

All the best,

JD

JD Young · Post by **JD Young** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:39 pm

Hi Theo, I asked our webmaster Tim to look into the issue with loading the website and he had a question for you:

Hi Theo,

Thank you so much for taking the time to let us know you're having problems with loading our website. We'd never know that otherwise.

I'm trying to replicate your problem over here. Having a MacBookPro 15inch with Yosemite and Safari 8, I don't have any problems. On another MacBookPro 13inch Mavericks and Safari 7.1.8 (according to Wikipedia, you can also upgrade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safari_version_history), and also no problems over there. I'm now in the process of updating the whole website and checking it for any mallware that could be there and might interfere with everything. Could you try opening the website one more time to see if anything has improved or changed?

Best regards,

Tim, Webmaster

el-bo (formerly ebow) · Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:46 pm

might give this a spin once i have made an image of my current re-install, and if i make peace with the name

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:18 pm

Hi, thanks for the reply. Ok if he can't reproduce it on the 7.1.8 safari macbook then I am not sure.. Is he on mavericks for that or mountain lion though?

I will try it again and see how I go.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:25 pm

Ok have tried the suite, and it has quite a few problems from my point of view.. Firstly, it makes sense to ask the planned price first - if we are talking ozone level pricing then you have a long way to go.. if you are talking beginners product with low pricing, maybe there is something here.

First problem is with the compressor. It has no high pass detector so it's not good for edm at all as a master compressor. I have been trying unsuccessfully to get it to compress a pop mix and it just keeps pumping to the kick drum. I gave up after a while. You can clearly hear volume pumps.

Second issue is with the Equaliser(s). There is no filter selection at all jut a 7 band standard EQ (both the stereo and m/s versions) with a high shelf/low shelf and 5 bells. Very ordinary stuff there. Also it's awkward to use cause the parameter boxes can only be used to type values, you can't drag up and down on them and MUST use the display to do so. It's rather essential to be able to also use the value boxes in a click drag fashion also, IMO.

Third issue is the mastering limiter. Hmmm. I have put it head to head against barricade/t racks/ozone - and this is by far the least pleasing with the result given. You can here it struggling and fighting as it gets pushed a little, distorting and pumping.

The monomizer is great and works as expected and the saturation is interesting - but it adds a lot of volume when driven. So I am not quite sure if it is actually saturating as the knob says?

Now to the website : the problem is persisting very noticeably here.

Cheers

SirkusPi · Post by **SirkusPi** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:46 pm

Using Safari 7.1.8 on Mac OSX 10.9.5 (Mavericks), and I haven't noticed any problem with the website (although I obviously don't know how my system otherwise differs from TheoM's).

In terms of the suite, I have to admit that I am a happy Ozone user (notwithstanding the very understandable complaints several people have had about Izotope and Ozone 6 in the past few months), so I'm not really in the market for another mastering collection at this point. Nonetheless, I sincerely do wish you luck going against such an established player (and iK too), if only because the more true competition there is, the more everyone will have to up their game (as much as I like Ozone, someone has to knock some sense into Izotope about their upgrade policies and practices).

JD Young · Post by **JD Young** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:32 pm

Hi Theo,

Thanks for your honest feedback! We want to keep improving on our mastering suite for the coming years, and the clear way you describe the issues you’ve encountered really helps us a lot. Apart from your comments about the plug-ins itself, I was wondering if you had a look at our 7-step manual as well? The plug-ins and manual are meant to be used together. In that respect we developed our 7-step ‘method’ as much as a mastering suite as a learning tool (for beginners), something you can change or expand on after you gain experience.

Your remark about the compressor I find particularly interesting. I can totally understand your need for a high pass function in the context of mastering EDM or any genre with big kicks. We will implement this in our next update. Thanks! Regarding the EQ’s: there is a high pass filter on the monomizer – which comes first in our workflow – and I have personally never used a low pass filter during mastering. Can you describe a situation where you would use one in? Although I like to use the display in most EQ’s, I do see your point about the drag controls and will look into that. Regarding the limiter: we’ve designed it to perform best at a modest gain reduction of between 3 dB and 6 dB. But I am very interested in making a more robust brickwall limiter for creating extreme loudness. We are working on this. The saturator is a combination of convolution and saturator/enhancer, which explains the added loudness. And about our pricing: our official release will probably be priced at 99 euro / 139 dollar (US).

Again, thanks for your message and constructive criticism. It’s very helpful to get a different perspective. I will discuss your feedback with the team. Back to work

All the best,

JD

Ps. We’ll have another look at the website.

JD Young · Post by **JD Young** » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:40 pm

Hi SirkusPi,

Thanks for your comment about the website, and for wishing us well. I am very passionate about mastering, and making mastering more accessible for beginners, so I hope we’ll get the opportunity to grow as a business and make some great plug-in bundles and tutorials

Cheers! JD

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:04 pm

JD i could do a vid of what is happening here with website if that helps.

I will now answer your questions..

i don't see a HP filter in the EQ so i must be doing something wrong. Further more it is a low cpu EQ and could be used as a main multi track Eq and not just a mastering one which is why I made my comments. Most EQ's these days, even those so called aimed at mastering only, provide the USER the choice of filter selection per band. It just isn't a flexible enough EQ without it, IMO.
I like to stack high passes in some EQ's when i need severe bass cut for example. What i see here is just very standard 2 shelves and 5 bells, available for free in almost any eq on the planet. You have to do something to help it stand out. It doesn't even have a solo function to isolate frequencies and for me at least, that feature is beyond essential.

No need to look at the manual as I am experienced in audio.. i did put them in sequence though as you do list the step number in front of the plugin name (at least that's how it appears on Logic), as i more or less agree with the sequence for mastering, and I am testing them especially on un mastered well mixed audio.

More : The EQ can not be resized and spectrum display is very small, even on my ageing 1440x900 15" laptop.

The limiter is not being tested hard, only a 2-3 db reduction and compared against ozone/barricade/pro-l/sonnox/fg-x etc etc etc.
And it's not faring well, sorry but I am being honest.

Now i am NOT trying to be hard on you, as for first release it's actually all pretty impressive "overall". I am genuinely trying to help, coming from someone who has been a plug in whore and music mixer for over 2 decades.

Besides the saturator (tiny latency barely noticeable) and the Limiter, these effects are zero latency, and they are all low cpu.. so why not market it as a mixing and mastering pack? i just don't get that, as the transient shaper, compressor, EQ, and especially the saturator are WELL suited to individual track duties! I can see myself using the saturator on some vocals or guitar but not on the full track, for example. I also like that the saturator, which does have a little latency, is reporting the figure correctly to logic to automatically compensate. I can't tell you how many times new plugins come along and get that wrong and i need to send an email. sometimes even from well established devs!

Besides the limiter I am actually pretty impressed by the general sound of all of them. Very transparent, smooth and clean! So please don't think I am trying to be just negative. Well the saturator isn't "clean" lol but it's not meant to be, and i think you know what I mean. Maybe cause I am starting with a good mix, dunno, but dragging the EQ around sounds pleasing for example. Good curves.

So all i am suggesting is to add "more features", to a good base start. Hope my comments are received as they are intended! PS even though it's 7 plugins, it's above the 100 mark so not novice priced, so the more fully featured they are the better for that price IMO, and consider selling them for $29 a piece too. I mean you have to look at toneboosters for example who have fantastic products that cover all these bases at fantastic prices.. Competition is fierce, but that's just life.

Cheers,
Theo

JD Young · Post by **JD Young** » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:41 pm

Hi Theo,

Thanks for your reply! I am very happy with your suggestions; they are certainly well received

I am glad you like the general sound of most of our plug-ins, and take our efforts serious enough to compare us with established brands of plug-ins.

The thing we want to do differently than other plug-in manufacturers is to provide home studio musicians and engineers (beginners) with a complete (basic) mastering workflow. Because in my experience finding relevant and concise information about this subject is easier said than done. That is why our focus has been on creating an easy-to-learn mastering workflow instead of making plug-ins with a lot of features - just to keep it simple to use ánd simple to learn. Hence my remark about our 7-step manual. However, we have started making plans for a version 2.0 of our suite in which we do want to include several new features that are more advanced. So although we might not incorporate your suggestions in our initial release (which is the 1st of October. Too soon to make certain changes to the functionality of the plug-ins), we fully intend to incorporate them in a later stage. The same goes for selling them separately btw. Our plan is to sell them for about 20 euro / 29 dollar (US), just like you suggested

The High Pass filter is on the Monomizer plug-in, which also has a slope control that internally stacks a number of HP filters. The EQ’s are very basic indeed. And although I like that about them; something to think about… The same goes for the limiter. I think I’ll start running some tests with multiband setups with a scaled auto-release per band that response to volume and frequency. Despite the fact that the Loudness War might soon be over, a perfect brickwall limiter is somewhat of the holy grail of digital mastering haha. (And a personal challenge). If you would be interested in testing some different setups in the future, that would be very helpful to us.

So, thanks for your help so far Theo! I will discuss your suggestions with our team. We’re gonna try our best to create something great:) BTW our webmaster Tim, had another question about the site for you, in case you find the time:

Hi! It's weird though. My Mac runs OSX 10.9.5. Have you updated safari to 7.1.8 as well? The security check has completed and nothing was found (luckily). Do you also have the problem with the website when you visit it with Chrome? They should have the same JS engine (webkit). It could tell me something. Thank you again for your time!

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:57 pm

Hi sure i will help test.

and thanks for your professional reply and I do see where you are coming from.

As far as the webmaster, sorry to say I won't install chrome. I guess I feel about google like many feel about apple. When i installed chrome, every hour, even when the browser was completely shut down, the google service tried to phone home. I won't allow that and won't install it again. However i will try it on firefox right now.. just gimme a sec....

Ok firefox is just fine (definitely latest build of that, v40.0.2).

Oh and i noticed i am on safari 7.1.7 so let me update that as I just also realised there was an update after reading your message. I see there is a security update too so requires a restart, will do that now.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:46 pm

Have my mac all up to date, here is a quick vid showing what happens.

edit, i just realised the video is pointless as the quicktime screen recorder doesn't record the spinning wheel! Just imagine that every time there is a delay it's because i can't click something and the wheel is spinning. Oh well!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw4jPMWdQ_U

JD Young · Post by **JD Young** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:18 am

Hoi Theo,

I’m happy to say the we have began implementing the compressor High Pass Filter functionality and the EQ’s edit box drag functionality. These features will be included in our release version the 1st of October. So thanks for your help! (We will include possible other features in a later free update). I have also made researching for a possible alternative limiter design a priority. It’s great you want to help us with testing

I’ll keep you posted.

About the website issue; we are not able to locate the problem unfortunately. I’ve got one more message from our webmaster Tim for you:

First off, pardon me for taking so long to answer. It has been a busy week. Thank you very much for taking the time to install Firefox and making the vid of the loading website. The only thing that I could notice was that it's loading a bit long. But after testing the website with Dev Tools and cutting my bandwidth, I'm still able to click on the menu, like you can't. So that shouldn't be it.

I'm kind of lost though. Not being able to replicate the issue, I'm just guessing what it could be. I do have some ideas that I would like to test, but to easily test them, I should have access to the same machine as you. That would be a bit too much to ask, so I won't. But it bugs me that it's not working correctly and it's causing you problems with the website. If you have the time, I'd like to discuss it further via email: tim@studiostt.nl. Maybe we can test some things out together, but I completely understand if that is a bit too much for 'just' a website you visit

Cheers, Tim

MAC beta-testers wanted for new mastering suite (Noiz-Lab)