Seaboard ... Bitwig and Roli ? per note modulation, automation

[Ybom]

Has the daw of the future already met a seabord ?

[dom@bitwig]

http://www.bitwig.com/en/bitwig_1_2_beta/1_2_beta.html

PLUS MORE...
Bitwig Studio 1.2 Beta Additional Features
The following additional features can be found in Bitwig Studio 1.2 Beta as well:
• Device Inspector
• Delay-4
• Expandable Clip Height
• High-DPI and Retina Display Support • Jack Support + Jack Transport
• Poly to Mono Modulation Mappings
• Pressure Note Expression
• Roger Linn "LinnStrument" Support • Roli "Seaboard” Support

[pdxindy]

• Roger Linn "LinnStrument" Support • Roli "Seaboard” Support

for Bitwig instruments, but not for VST's yes?

[dom@bitwig]

For Bitwig devices as well as for VSTs, but in case of VSTs they have to support the Midi MPE specification:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-26 ... zyTx8/edit

So far i don't know any that fully support it, esp. the query part canDo MPE explained at the end of the specs document.

Cheers,
Dom

[pdxindy]

For Bitwig devices as well as for VSTs, but in case of VSTs they have to support the Midi MPE specification:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-26 ... zyTx8/edit

So far i don't know any that fully support it, esp. the query part canDo MPE explained at the end of the specs document.

Cheers,
Dom

Hey Dom,

Thanks for the reply...

What about the U-he synths, Diva, Bazille and Ace? They have note per midi channel support. Is that currently of no benefit in Bitwig 1.2?

[Live Transmission]

Aalto supports MPE afaik.
http://madronalabs.com/topics/4699-aalt ... pe-support

[Ybom]

Very interesting. Thank you for the answer.

Btw : in 2 days we'll have some new announcements at Roli. See the counterclock here : https://www.roli.com

I hope one day I'll play that board and record it in BwS !

[thetechnobear]

For Bitwig devices as well as for VSTs, but in case of VSTs they have to support the Midi MPE specification:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-26 ... zyTx8/edit

So far i don't know any that fully support it, esp. the query part canDo MPE explained at the end of the specs document.

Cheers,
Dom

Aalto 1.7 is suppose to fully support MPE, Ive asked Randy if he is supporting the 'canDo' op.
but perhaps as it was 'recommended' in the spec rather than mandatory it may not... perhaps we can tell BWS we want to use MPE?

Also is BWS going to support expression for external midi ...
the Axoloti (axoloti.be) already supports MPE via midi, and the Parva will be released in the next few weeks with MPE support.
(obviously for hardware no op code can exist, so perhaps you will need an option to turn it on).

as for u-he synths,
Urs has stated he doesn't want to support MPE until its official (rather than a draft standard)...
but if you support MPE, then extending to u-he synths would be simple... (they use voice per channel)
the u-he synths already use the same channel pressure/pitch bend per channel... the only difference is they cannot support CC74, (only CC 1,2 or 11)
so... we would need to be able to assign Timbre to an alternative CC.

This would open up expression in bitwig to Diva/Bazille/Ace/Hive which would be fantastic.

[pdxindy]

Bump

[PHY6]

For Bitwig devices as well as for VSTs, but in case of VSTs they have to support the Midi MPE specification:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-26 ... zyTx8/edit

So far i don't know any that fully support it, esp. the query part canDo MPE explained at the end of the specs document.

Cheers,
Dom

I'm very happy you've gone this route.
I don't own a Linnstrument (yet).
But this is certainly the way to go.
Now add some alternative tuning options, and you've got a winner there.

[PHY6]

For Bitwig devices as well as for VSTs, but in case of VSTs they have to support the Midi MPE specification:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-26 ... zyTx8/edit

So far i don't know any that fully support it, esp. the query part canDo MPE explained at the end of the specs document.

Cheers,
Dom

Aalto 1.7 is suppose to fully support MPE, Ive asked Randy if he is supporting the 'canDo' op.
but perhaps as it was 'recommended' in the spec rather than mandatory it may not... perhaps we can tell BWS we want to use MPE?

Also is BWS going to support expression for external midi ...
the Axoloti (axoloti.be) already supports MPE via midi, and the Parva will be released in the next few weeks with MPE support.
(obviously for hardware no op code can exist, so perhaps you will need an option to turn it on).

as for u-he synths,
Urs has stated he doesn't want to support MPE until its official (rather than a draft standard)...
but if you support MPE, then extending to u-he synths would be simple... (they use voice per channel)
the u-he synths already use the same channel pressure/pitch bend per channel... the only difference is they cannot support CC74, (only CC 1,2 or 11)
so... we would need to be able to assign Timbre to an alternative CC.

This would open up expression in bitwig to Diva/Bazille/Ace/Hive which would be fantastic.

Making the timbre react to cc would be great.
Maybe some custom cc note expressions could be usefull.

[pdxindy]

For Bitwig devices as well as for VSTs, but in case of VSTs they have to support the Midi MPE specification:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-26 ... zyTx8/edit

So far i don't know any that fully support it, esp. the query part canDo MPE explained at the end of the specs document.

Cheers,
Dom

Aalto 1.7 is suppose to fully support MPE, Ive asked Randy if he is supporting the 'canDo' op.
but perhaps as it was 'recommended' in the spec rather than mandatory it may not... perhaps we can tell BWS we want to use MPE?

Also is BWS going to support expression for external midi ...
the Axoloti (axoloti.be) already supports MPE via midi, and the Parva will be released in the next few weeks with MPE support.
(obviously for hardware no op code can exist, so perhaps you will need an option to turn it on).

as for u-he synths,
Urs has stated he doesn't want to support MPE until its official (rather than a draft standard)...
but if you support MPE, then extending to u-he synths would be simple... (they use voice per channel)
the u-he synths already use the same channel pressure/pitch bend per channel... the only difference is they cannot support CC74, (only CC 1,2 or 11)
so... we would need to be able to assign Timbre to an alternative CC.

This would open up expression in bitwig to Diva/Bazille/Ace/Hive which would be fantastic.

Yeah, that would be great... but it is at least 6 months since I've been hearing about v1.2 and the possibility of polyphonic expression working in it.

As the video by Geert shows, the U-he synths work fully right now in Cubase. I've been waiting on Bitwig 1.2 because it seemed like it might get done, but Dom's comment indicates to me that Bitwig is now leaving it up to the VST developers to make their plugins work with Bitwig as is. It could easily be another 6 months or a year before using the U-he synths with note per channel are realized in Bitwig.

Cubase works now, with the synths I use most, and the implementation is slick... I'm gonna go that route.

[ThomasHelzle]

Well, as the video from Geert and the LinnStrument-DAW-thread mentioned, MPE is in flux still since some industry heavyweights mess with it now - that can actually go in any direction I guess.

So I understand both Urs and Bitwig, since if they invest time now, they may have to change or re-do it later with all the pain that includes, like writing internal document translators for old projects/presets to convert them to the new standard etc. It's never just about having a certain feature, it's also about opening old projects in a sensible way and other such stuff - the feature itself is just the tip of the iceberg.

I am already happy we have working PolyAT now, and I have a working solution for note-per-channel with the u-he synths via multiple tracks. Sure it's not as elegant ATM as Cubase, but I'm not really that bothered with "convenience" - heck, I even do surround sound with Bitwig which isn't even possible officially and it works just fine

I actually need some inconveniences to become creative it seems

Cheers,

Tom

[pdxindy]

So I understand both Urs and Bitwig, since if they invest time now, they may have to change or re-do it later with all the pain that includes, like writing internal document translators for old projects/presets to convert them to the new standard etc. It's never just about having a certain feature, it's also about opening old projects in a sensible way and other such stuff - the feature itself is just the tip of the iceberg.

Hasn't stopped Cubase from working, nor Logic... MPE is just note per midi channel... nothing particularly new or complicated there...

I am already happy we have working PolyAT now, and I have a working solution for note-per-channel with the u-he synths via multiple tracks. Sure it's not as elegant ATM as Cubase, but I'm not really that bothered with "convenience" - heck, I even do surround sound with Bitwig which isn't even possible officially and it works just fine

Please explain your multiple tracks. Is that a single instance of say Diva with multiple tracks each set to receive a single but different midi channel outputting to the track Diva is on? Or do you have multiple instances? How is editing of the expression data done with that setup? My first priority is a functional setup... I can also live without some convenience.

Thanks for chiming in.

[ThomasHelzle]

Well, if you like Cubase or Logic, use them. Nothing wrong with that. Of course they are more advanced after 20 years than Bitwig after 1.5.

I copy my post from the other thread here for convenience below. It's a single instance of Diva like you say. Note expressions can be edited rather conveniently via multi-track-edit. Only problem are CCs ATM, since automation isn't accessible via multi-edit.

Here's the copied post from the Linnstrument DAW thread:

Well, just for completeness sake, while it's not as convenient as in Cubase, you CAN use the u-he synths and similar VSTs with BWS using one track per midi channel. 1.2 makes it a bit less painful since you can fold the 16 tracks for the individual midi channels away and save the setup as a preset.

You put Diva or Bazille on the group track. In the group you have 16 tracks that each receives on one midi channel (for instance via one of my Controller Scripts that support selecting individual MIDI channels) and send the individual midi-channel track outputs directly to the VST. When you do that, a number shows up that allows you to set what channel it should send on, which you set to the same MIDI channel as your track receives on.
So even without true midi-multichannel support per track, you CAN use it at this moment in time.

For instruments that don't support note per channel, you could put them into an instrument layer stack and send your per-channel-track outputs directly to one layer each if you want to have the output all on one track (and if the CPU can handle it ). But it may be "easier" to have the instruments on the individual tracks. Not sure if I would go to all that trouble though

Editing isn't as convenient either, but multi-track-editing in Bitwig helps and works for per-note-expressions, but you can't get at the CCs of all selected tracks in that mode. In the below screenshot I selected all 16 clips at once to edit them in one go. You can see how the individual track/clip colours are represented in the notes and velocities. It's the same for Pressure (Polyphonic Aftertouch).



So yeah, still some ways to go but with some sense for adventure, it can be done

Cheers,

Tom