KVR Audio

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:51 pm

Had a wah-pedal that could filter and sound a bit like vowels - so thought maybe different synthesis is possible?

Thinking general oooohhhh, aaaaaaaaaahhhh, sounds etc.

Have a choir voice in my Yamaha piano - which is not all bad, but fear a little too much distorted. If possible see if something really clean and nice sounding.

Not sure if this is part of fm synthesis of some sort, or if recorded in the Yamaha piano.
I think most sounds do sound like fm synthesis, at least el. piano stuff.

Any ideas - or suggestion for libraries/plugin for that purpose?

I will get a Yamaha Reface DX tomorrow, can fm synthesis make those kind of sounds?
If so, any tips for which algos to start with?

Had a TX81 decades ago, and don't remember much about fm.

Thanks.

wagtunes · Post by **wagtunes** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:56 pm

If you want a realistic sounding choir, you're not getting it out of a synth unless the synth plays back samples. I use EWQL Symphonic Choirs when I want a realistic choir sound. Synths just don't do it for me.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:58 pm

http://www.bigtickaudio.com/goodies/angelina

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:20 pm

Synth 1 ----> Ann Bank 3 ----> " Dark Choir ". Great synthesized choir sound.

Realistic as samples ? No but an awesome patch none the less. So to answer the question yes you can synthesize a good choir..........

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:22 pm

wagtunes wrote:If you want a realistic sounding choir, you're not getting it out of a synth unless the synth plays back samples. I use EWQL Symphonic Choirs when I want a realistic choir sound. Synths just don't do it for me.

EWQL will be checked out, thanks.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:23 pm

whyterabbyt wrote:http://www.bigtickaudio.com/goodies/angelina

How lovely is that, thank you, already downloaded and registered.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:25 pm

Teksonik wrote:Synth 1 ----> Ann Bank 3 ----> " Dark Choir ". Great synthesized choir sound.

Realistic as samples ? No but an awesome patch none the less. So to answer the question yes you can synthesize a good choir..........

Will not be used as lead, more like a bg pad harmony - so if just clean sounding not adding harsch components, it's fine. Have some patches for choir in JV80, but they are not even close to Yamaha.
Thanks.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:33 pm

Then you might as well use sample based choirs. There's a difference between "good" and "realistic".

Kontakt.........

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:35 pm

There are differenr ways to get nice Cjhoir sounds, it just maters how realistic they should be.

If you want realistic sounds you maybe have to use sample libraries.

For synthetic choirs there are multiple ways like e.g. wavetable synths (e.g. the famous PPG Choir), FM synthesis, additive synthesis and formant synthesis. With all those doing Choir like sounds should be quite simple while they are maybe not "realistic" enough.

Formant filters usually could be also "emulated" using multiple BP filters, each with different cutoff (for some basic choir/vox like sounds even a single BP filter could be enough).
Tone2 Electra 2.1 has the "Boob" filter that could produce two BPFs with one filter which could be adjustted with the Cutoff/Reso controls.
The Cutoff frequencies should be usually calibrated to the frequencies of certain "vowels" of the human speech then resulting in e.g. "Aah", "Ooh" sounds.
Electra 2.1 aslo has a dedicted "Vocals" filter which is more or less a formant filter. Also some other synths seem to include dedicated formant filters.

Some old analog synths could emulate Choir sounds too like e.g. the Roland VP-330 (whioch is also a string machine and vocoder). There is a nice emulation called "V+" from Xils Lab. This has a few formant controls for te Choir sounds.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:04 pm

Teksonik wrote:Then you might as well use sample based choirs. There's a difference between "good" and "realistic".

Kontakt.........

I have Kontakt 4.3 license, I believe it is, but last times I tried to use it I found it was so full of bugs, and NI showed no interest in fixing it either.

But come to think of that Magix Independece Pro Suite might have something in that choir range - how did I forget about checking that.

You sort of get lost in everything you've got just occupying disk, and just buy new stuff.
Must get better organized....

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:12 pm

Ingonator wrote:There are differenr ways to get nice Cjhoir sounds, it just maters how realistic they should be.

If you want realistic sounds you maybe have to use sample libraries.

For synthetic choirs there are multiple ways like e.g. wavetable synths (e.g. the famous PPG Choir), FM synthesis, additive synthesis and formant synthesis. With all those doing Choir like sounds should be quite simple while they are maybe not "realistic" enough.

I suppose that is the key - the more realistic the more in foreground it may be.

I had some fun playing piano and layering with the choir patch, and felt I want to investigate further. Really nice ideas that pop up.

Will check PPG Choir, thanks.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:15 pm

Good topic, will follow this. I always had my issues with synthesized choirs, i get quite close with the oscillators, but it's always missing something, maybe some unpredictability, and it only sounds right for half an octave or so.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:33 pm

lfm wrote: I have Kontakt 4.3 license, I believe it is, but last times I tried to use it I found it was so full of bugs, and NI showed no interest in fixing it either.

Can't speak about 4.3 but Kontakt 5 is very stable here. There are also some awesome free vocal libraries available for Kontakt but I'm not sure what versions they support.

Anyway if I want realistic choirs I reach for Kontakt. (of the plugins I own).

Astralv · Post by **Astralv** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:57 pm

There are many choir libraries. Kontact 4 may have bugs and they did address them in Kontact 5. Without Kontact it is pintless to list known libraries.

Now taking about the bugs- East West uses Play player, and I have serious issues with their Choir library. It was working fine, then they released one of the updates and now all my samples out of tune and does not match the keys. They promised to fix it in the "next update" but never did- been couple of years- it still broken. Their tech support never replies to the messages and installation process is difficult, so you may need them to reply. I would say Kontact.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:21 pm

lfm wrote: Will check PPG Choir, thanks.

A PPG Wave 2.3 with a Choir sound uis used here (best software emulation is Waldorf PPG Wave 3.V):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj7zKp7cN6g

Can you synthesize good choir - or is recorded best way?