Hallo,
im new to the world of of using an external clock.
Maybee someone can help me.
In my setup on Mac OSX i use ableton with two external synths and some moogerfoogers.
I mainly play the synth with keys, record midi to ableton and give it back in realtime.
Because timing is not tight, i thought the Usamo is my way to go.
Everything is hooked up to a motu midi express 128.
I have the Motu midi express, two external synth and two moogerfoogers.
Whats the best way to get everything tight ?
Is one Usamo enough for all external gear on diffrent midi channels ?
Do i need one Usamo for every piece of hardware ?
Or is there an oportunity to rout only the clock signal to my Motu midi express 128 ?
Some help would be nice.
Thank you.
Usamo midi setup
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- KVRian
- 1410 posts since 22 Mar, 2002 from UK
Ideally you would have a USAMO per synth. (Or an ESX-8MD.)
If you're only sending clock, you might get away with distributing a single USAMO's output. But if there are notes on the same cable, they will disturb the clock.
If you're only sending clock, you might get away with distributing a single USAMO's output. But if there are notes on the same cable, they will disturb the clock.
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- KVRist
- 350 posts since 10 Oct, 2011
A midi clock signal is several times per second. So if you have a lot of fast notes the timing of the notes and even the clock could be disturbed.
If you send clock via an USAMO, midi notes via the motu and use an external midi merger before your synth then you could loose the tight timing of clock and notes.
I would use the internal clock of your synth.(which are you using? any drum machines?)
And send midi notes via the motto to the synth.
In case you absolutely need a tight clock at a high tempo and many fast notes at the same time and you notice something is off after a while then record just the few bars that sound good as audio into you DAW and be done with it.
The USAMO seems to transmit note and clock at the same time well. I have not heard it myself, but maybe it will sound good
If you send clock via an USAMO, midi notes via the motu and use an external midi merger before your synth then you could loose the tight timing of clock and notes.
I would use the internal clock of your synth.(which are you using? any drum machines?)
And send midi notes via the motto to the synth.
In case you absolutely need a tight clock at a high tempo and many fast notes at the same time and you notice something is off after a while then record just the few bars that sound good as audio into you DAW and be done with it.
The USAMO seems to transmit note and clock at the same time well. I have not heard it myself, but maybe it will sound good
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 4 posts since 24 Nov, 2015
This was my old way to do it,Bathrobe wrote:A midi clock signal is several times per second. So if you have a lot of fast notes the timing of the notes and even the clock could be disturbed.
If you send clock via an USAMO, midi notes via the motu and use an external midi merger before your synth then you could loose the tight timing of clock and notes.
I would use the internal clock of your synth.(which are you using? any drum machines?)
And send midi notes via the motto to the synth.
In case you absolutely need a tight clock at a high tempo and many fast notes at the same time and you notice something is off after a while then record just the few bars that sound good as audio into you DAW and be done with it.
The USAMO seems to transmit note and clock at the same time well. I have not heard it myself, but maybe it will sound good
I have a kind of live looping setup where i play with a Moog Voyager
and a DSI Tetra Ableton as Host.
Often i play the notes from the keyboard.
Record the notes to ableton and give it back to the Synth.
So if i have a tight clock but the midi notes are not tight i dont have an advaantage from the clock.
So the most sync units wich give out tight midi clock are not what im searching for.
Because i also need to transfer the midi notes over the midi port.
So i thought the Usamo is the way to go for me.
Because E.S said its sample accurate midi ( not only clock)
So is it ok to send clock and notes to one or two synths ?
I got my Usamo today and will test a little bit.
I was hoping i can send out clock and nots to two synths over two midi channels.
I will also buy two units if i need it for the two synths.
But its important to send tight midi notes. More important than midi clock for me.
But would be nice to have tight clock and notes.
Because tight midi notes but no synced envelopes and so on its not really an advantage to
the laggy clock and midi timing over normal motu midi hub.
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- KVRian
- 1410 posts since 22 Mar, 2002 from UK
It's a fundamental property of MIDI that you can't have two messages at the exact same time. So you can't have two notes, or a note and a clock, at the same moment. Similarly, you can't send messages on two MIDI channels at the exact same moment.
The only way to achieve this is to use two physical cables.
That said, if you *do* send two things at once via a USAMO, the result will be as good as it *can* be - which might be significantly better than your USB MIDI, perhaps good enough to your ears. Only you can tell.
The only way to achieve this is to use two physical cables.
That said, if you *do* send two things at once via a USAMO, the result will be as good as it *can* be - which might be significantly better than your USB MIDI, perhaps good enough to your ears. Only you can tell.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 4 posts since 24 Nov, 2015
Ok thank you.
So for my setup i can live without a clock.
I thought because of the sample accurate midi i have an advantage over a normal usb midi. or over other
sync modules wich give out clock only and no accurate midi.
I am also able to use one Usamo for every synth.
But i have to send out midi notes and midi cc at the same time.
So you are not sure if the Usamo will be better than a good USB midi hub in this situation ?
Sorry for the question, but it will save me a lot of time if havent to buy two Usamos
to figure out that its no improvement.
But if it will be an improvement i will integrate it in my setup.
Because i give out midi notes and cc, (also clock with my midi hub)
and dont use external sequencers, the jitter or drivt of the external stuff is very
small, so its hard to hear whats going on.
So if the Usamo will also get a little jitter in the way i try to use it, its very hard or imposible to decide
wich jitter is smaller or better.
So maybee its better to go on with my normal hub ?
So for my setup i can live without a clock.
I thought because of the sample accurate midi i have an advantage over a normal usb midi. or over other
sync modules wich give out clock only and no accurate midi.
I am also able to use one Usamo for every synth.
But i have to send out midi notes and midi cc at the same time.
So you are not sure if the Usamo will be better than a good USB midi hub in this situation ?
Sorry for the question, but it will save me a lot of time if havent to buy two Usamos
to figure out that its no improvement.
But if it will be an improvement i will integrate it in my setup.
Because i give out midi notes and cc, (also clock with my midi hub)
and dont use external sequencers, the jitter or drivt of the external stuff is very
small, so its hard to hear whats going on.
So if the Usamo will also get a little jitter in the way i try to use it, its very hard or imposible to decide
wich jitter is smaller or better.
So maybee its better to go on with my normal hub ?
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- KVRian
- 1410 posts since 22 Mar, 2002 from UK
The USAMO will almost certainly be better than a USB solution. My suggestion is to get one and try it. If it works for you, buy more.
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- KVRer
- 1 posts since 20 Oct, 2016
To the OP:
I am also very interested in the results of your setup. I have a setup and requirements which are almost identical to yours and I am considering purchasing the USAMO but am curious to know how exactly I would utilise it.
I also have the same 8x8 MOTU USB MIDI interface you have and would be trying to send clock and MIDI to several synths/drum machines and am trying to work out what the most reliable way to do this would be. I am also planning to hook the USAMO the way you are proposing, that is plugging its MIDI out to one of the MIDI ins of the MOTU and using that as a hub to distribute the information to where it needs to go.
Basically the way I am thinking about it boils down to the following scenarios:
Clock and MIDI over USAMO with all hardware synced to DAW.
This I imagine would be the most likely to cause latency due to MIDI bottlenecks as everything is sent down the one cable. But as others have suggested it is also the one solution that is LEAST likely to be noticeable as there would no general jitter.
Clock and MIDI over USAMO with hardware that cannot be tempo synced accurately manually receiving clock while other hardware is synced to own internal clock/sequencer which is manually matched to DAW tempo.
This is basically a modified version of the previous scenario which in my thinking should be more stable if the previous scenario is not tight enough as at least some of equipment would not be trying processing clock and other MIDI data simultaneously. The downside to this would be that not all of the hardware I have can be manually tempo synced and that also this makes any tempo changes or anything fancy like that nearly impossible.
Clock over USAMO, MIDI over USB into the MOTU interface and out to the hardware
This should create less bottlenecks at the USAMO end due to clock and other MIDI data taking different routes to their destinations but my thinking is that once everything arrives at the hardware then things will bottleneck anyway. In addition this is the most likely to create jitter which further destabilize things.
Clock over USAMO, MIDI over USB into the MOTU interface and out to the hardware, hardware that is capable synced to internal manually tempo-matched clock/sequencer
Again the same above modification applied to previous scenario in hope of improving any potential bottleneck issues at the receiving end and again with the same limitations as mentioned above.
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I am really curious to know what the OP has done since writing this up and what setup has given the best results. If you don't mind please share your findings.
Also another question related to this.
Does anyone know if the advertised improvements in the MIDI capabilities of windows 10 have sufficiently eradicated jittering problems as to make something like the USAMO redundant? I suspect there is no straight forward answer to this but I figured I'd ask anyway...
I am also very interested in the results of your setup. I have a setup and requirements which are almost identical to yours and I am considering purchasing the USAMO but am curious to know how exactly I would utilise it.
I also have the same 8x8 MOTU USB MIDI interface you have and would be trying to send clock and MIDI to several synths/drum machines and am trying to work out what the most reliable way to do this would be. I am also planning to hook the USAMO the way you are proposing, that is plugging its MIDI out to one of the MIDI ins of the MOTU and using that as a hub to distribute the information to where it needs to go.
Basically the way I am thinking about it boils down to the following scenarios:
Clock and MIDI over USAMO with all hardware synced to DAW.
This I imagine would be the most likely to cause latency due to MIDI bottlenecks as everything is sent down the one cable. But as others have suggested it is also the one solution that is LEAST likely to be noticeable as there would no general jitter.
Clock and MIDI over USAMO with hardware that cannot be tempo synced accurately manually receiving clock while other hardware is synced to own internal clock/sequencer which is manually matched to DAW tempo.
This is basically a modified version of the previous scenario which in my thinking should be more stable if the previous scenario is not tight enough as at least some of equipment would not be trying processing clock and other MIDI data simultaneously. The downside to this would be that not all of the hardware I have can be manually tempo synced and that also this makes any tempo changes or anything fancy like that nearly impossible.
Clock over USAMO, MIDI over USB into the MOTU interface and out to the hardware
This should create less bottlenecks at the USAMO end due to clock and other MIDI data taking different routes to their destinations but my thinking is that once everything arrives at the hardware then things will bottleneck anyway. In addition this is the most likely to create jitter which further destabilize things.
Clock over USAMO, MIDI over USB into the MOTU interface and out to the hardware, hardware that is capable synced to internal manually tempo-matched clock/sequencer
Again the same above modification applied to previous scenario in hope of improving any potential bottleneck issues at the receiving end and again with the same limitations as mentioned above.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I am really curious to know what the OP has done since writing this up and what setup has given the best results. If you don't mind please share your findings.
Also another question related to this.
Does anyone know if the advertised improvements in the MIDI capabilities of windows 10 have sufficiently eradicated jittering problems as to make something like the USAMO redundant? I suspect there is no straight forward answer to this but I figured I'd ask anyway...
