Hardware vs Software, sound quality differences is that still a thing ?

[Synthman2000]

Was not quite sure where to post.I am wondering if the days of software being less good than hardware are over. I suppose we can say from 2 perspectives... i.e a couple of 10 cent opamps in the output stage of a virtual analogue hardware synth. (Can that really make much difference?)

Quality of wave forms, filter models and effects. I suppose the summing of hardware is a potential variation as well. But I suppose we now have that taken care of in the digital realm as well.
With the latest offerings are virtual analogues like the Virus still of merit.

So are they are as rich and capable and do they hit the mark and has the gap narrowed to a point where hardware is pointless other than the hands on aspect. For sheer sound quality and fidelity is software as good mid 2016 ? Synths like Diva have without shadow of doubt pushed the bar higher.

What is your take on this matter ? Can you make as good an electronic music mix with software alone.

[Mushy Mushy]

Yes
No
Maybe
Fish

/thread

[Dance Cartel]

I mean, the difference becomes really apparent when you start processing the sounds. Analog will always give you a better sounding result in my opinion, but there are a lot of sample based synths that actually sample analog sounds from certain synths, which come pretty close, so we're getting to the point where you can get really close with software, but I still think analog still sounds better than soft synths.

[KoolKool]

i really hate this topic!

[Synthman2000]

I suspect that digital soft synths have in fact superseded the technical quality of filters in digital hardware. Analogue is a separate issue and of course qualitatively different. When I posed the question I meant digital hardware VA and soft synth VA.


The only differences sonically is hardware does not get updated whereas soft synths do and when new ones come out they supersede hardware because they take care of new DSP techniques making smoother filters and oscillators with less aliasing.

The sheer fatness and weight of some soft synths now is jaw dropping. Filter implementation has come on hugely and there is no easy way to re-code/update code in them in hardware so they are at a technological disadvantage. Softsynths are also lower price and their integration is typically superior.

Of course they do not work as well for live performance but even that can be dealt with with a good controller if you really need it.

[NystagmusE]

I used to work with hardware 100%, and now I work with software 100% except for a field recorder.
It really depends upon which type of gear you are referring to.

Ease of use is a bigger factor than sound quality anymore.

Personally, I get better overall music quality with software, but I've had to hunt and pick out the good from the bad, which is OK by me.
I use mostly freeware, so it didn't hurt and was kind of fun.

Really it's nice if you can have a bit of both.

[zerocrossing]

I suspect that digital soft synths have in fact superseded the technical quality of filters in digital hardware. Analogue is a separate issue and of course qualitatively different. When I posed the question I meant digital hardware VA and soft synth VA.


The only differences sonically is hardware does not get updated whereas soft synths do and when new ones come out they supersede hardware because they take care of new DSP techniques making smoother filters and oscillators with less aliasing.

The sheer fatness and weight of some soft synths now is jaw dropping. Filter implementation has come on hugely and there is no easy way to re-code/update code in them in hardware so they are at a technological disadvantage. Softsynths are also lower price and their integration is typically superior.

Of course they do not work as well for live performance but even that can be dealt with with a good controller if you really need it.

^This is the correct answer, though I'll add that if there is a specific character of a sound, say from a V-Synth, then you should probably just get the V-Synth.

[risome]

In most cases yes but some soft synths still have a way to go

[chk071]

Where i feel like soft synths HAVEN'T superseded hardware synth yet, or at least many hardware synth, is in sounding GOOD. How many people are still GAS'ing for a Virus, or in love with something like the Waldorf Q? Or, with analog synths. Of course, tastes differ also, but there seem to be a whole lot of people who believe that said things, or also a Roland JP-8000, or a Waldorf Blofeld sound very good. And, from what i gathered, those synths with a certain status, and popularity, are also very versatile, when it comes to "sounding good". There are very few soft synths which really do, at least IMO. I do believe that there are more hardware synths which do have a broader sweet spot. Simply because the companies behind those know their handcraft, know what the people want, or like, and have the pressure of creating a high quality instrument. With software, i guess, you're rather capable of doing "your own thing", or maybe experiment, without the pressure of having to do exactly what people are expecting you to do. Which can lead to more artistic freedom in creating your software, but which can also lead to having your own idea about how the synth should sound, and if that idea is a bit different to the mainstream, or simply the dev has a different, or worse ear, the result might not be perfect in every regard.

I started with freeware synths, the likes of Synth1, TAL-Noisemaker, Charlatan, and later Dune CM, but frankly, while all those are good, i always felt that the last bit of "sweetness", or simply the feeling that i could use one synth for a broad variety of different sounds wasn't there (even though i would kind of take Charlatan out of that equation, as it's a great synth). Later i added Z3TA+ to my arsenal, which came with a Computer Music mag issue, which also is quite a nice synth, but, again, i felt like it sort of lacks something. The last bit of "deluxe" sweetness, which makes experimenting so much fun, because you can get sweet tones out of the synth in every way you tweak, sort of. It was only later, when i added Largo, and, a bit later, Spire to my synth, that i really got that feeling. Especially with Largo, it drips sweetness out of every gap. And Spire is an equally wonderful instruments. With those 2, i can really jam, and experiment for hours. Even though Largo gives me the better programming, and experimenting experience. With Spire, you rather have to know what you do, and it's also a bit unusual sometimes, for example the Noise, or FM oscillators.

Anyway, bottom line for me is that it is not easy to find soft synths, which really satisfy you in every regard, and in every condition of life (and, frankly, i also feel like some devs simply have a bad ear, or taste). I haven't fiddled with a Virus myself yet, but, i could imagine, after having watched so many videos, and listening to so many demos, that it is one of those "tweak me, i give you sugar" kind of machines, which simply sound good. Out of the box. No matter what you do. And i suspect that that holds true for a whole bunch of hardware synths, otherwise they wouldn't be so popular. Subjective of course, but, frankly, a lot of people seem to think the same way, so it might not be THAT subjective.

[goldenanalog]

I am wondering if the days of software being less good than hardware are over.

If I were strictly speaking as one keyboardist to another: We have (relatively) easy/affordable access to both digital and analog tech, so that each of us can decide the answer to that question for ourselves - as we each should! Workflow (or the luxurious lack thereof) defined by purpose largely determines what an electronic musician does (or does not) do - it is overall just faster to work in streamlined fashion itb (w/almost 100% software) most of the time if your life is riddled with deadlines. If you don't have deadlines chasing you, and you have play-dough capital - Wellllll, then! - As one example: There are a few people here that have 'invested' in the money pit known as the modular synthesizer, who have essentially disappeared from our planet - but who do still visit here from time-to-time, when they're not travelling inter-audio space in a strange mixture of utter madness and sheer joy

[zlatan]

I used to be a 100% analog purist , but nowadays for the type of records I release (various beatport genres) ITB is how you make those "hit" sounds. The more obscure subgenres is where you hear a lot of analog. I have most of my analogs in storage and I love what I can do ITB. We probably only have 15% discovered of what we REALLY can do with the software already available.
Most people can only whine about the "fatness" and "warmth" of analog sounds, but you could easily reproduce that in the digital domain.... if you have the skills and/or open mind.
For me ,(vintage) analog is nothing more than nostalgia.

It's time to stop complaining about the sound quality of software and the musical taste/output of the young generation.
Nobody cares if your bassline was from a vintage minimoog (with the right serial# range and oscillator board) or Strobe (1 or 2).
Just make great music ...
I'm very interested to hear styles that are gonna be invented and what new unheard sounds and techniques.

Sometimes you read the most complex and extreme demands that people have when it comes to how a piece of software should sound
or specs they should have.
NEVER do I hear or see any music on a decent platform that would require all that.
Not even Aphex Twin or Autechre together would need those.

[Uncle E]

I am wondering if the days of software being less good than hardware are over. I suppose we can say from 2 perspectives... i.e a couple of 10 cent opamps in the output stage of a virtual analogue hardware synth. (Can that really make much difference?)

A 10 cent opamp like a JRC4558 or TL072 will push mids forward and soften highs, which are nice qualities for a VA. Most people say they prefer the sound of the Virus TI's analog outputs over the USB TI digital output.

Can you make as good an electronic music mix with software alone.

I'll conservatively guess that 80% of the electronic music you're hearing on charts was done with software alone.

[D-Fusion]

My system 1m sounds just like my system 1 vst.
When i had a blofeld and the Largo came out i sold my Blofeld because they had the same sound and i wasn't interested in the sample part or the ppg filter.

I also had a Roland boutique JP08 which i compared to the Arturia J8V and the sound was so close and i prefered the sound of the Arturia so i sold the jp.

The Nord lead A1 has a unique sound that i can't find in any vst.
The Roland boutique JU06 is a great and sweet sounding synth but i can create the sounds i like on that one with my System 1(m) with Cross mod, PWM and some chorus.

I also had a Korg Minilogue but i prefered the sound of my digital synths + vst instead.
The Minilogue had a glossy fm like timber which i didn't quite warm up to.

I still have and use both hw and sw and when i buy new hw the synth has to offer something that i can't create with my vst's (Except for my system 1m which i like to use as a controller too).

[VariKusBrainZ]

My system 1m sounds just like my system 1 vst.

And anyone is surprised by this ?

[D-Fusion]

My system 1m sounds just like my system 1 vst.

And anyone is surprised by this ?

It was actually meant as a reply to the talk about 10 cents opamps vs vst sound and if they makes any difference.