Christian Contemporary Production Question

[wagtunes]

In short, how do they get their big sound?

They pretty much all sound the same with the exception that maybe some have big strings and others don't. But they all have this big sound.

How do they do it?

Here are a few samples. (For some reason YouTube kills the low end on these as opposed to how this comes out of my CD player at home so these examples may not translate as well)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IExdrZGQVeI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRJhBHX8Uwo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91iXRMkmFbs

The first one is probably the best example.

Hopefully, somebody here is actually familiar with Christian Contemporary production techniques and knows what I'm talking about. Their recordings feel like this big wall of sound.

How do they get that?

[InLight-Tone]

I think cause they are reaching for a god/deity/higher power it somehow gets translated into the music whether or not it's just a figment of their imagination....

[wagtunes]

I think cause they are reaching for a god/deity/higher power it somehow gets translated into the music whether or not it's just a figment of their imagination....

Um, thanks. I guess. Doesn't really help me and I don't think that's the technical explanation for the big sound on their recordings, but thanks anyway.

[nineofkings]

Classic "radio pop" production techniques for a super-dense mix: lots of stereo and lots of compression.

If you focus on where the instruments sit in the stereo field, everything except the bass, drums, and vocals are off to the sides. Pianos, pads, and guitars are often on both sides at once, through stereo miking/keyboard tracking, chorus or synth unison, and double tracking, respectively. This lets the instrumental sound big without getting in the way of the vocals. Except for the third example, which has been summed to mono for some indiscernible reason. Sounds like a classic "I'm a video editor and know nothing about audio" mistake.

Also, everything is very compressed. You can hear the snap of the snare as it gets squashed by the compressor, which makes it sound super beefy. And the vocals, too, sound really upfront, which requires a lot of compression. Both these things together give a dense, thick mix.

[wagtunes]

Classic "radio pop" production techniques for a super-dense mix: lots of stereo and lots of compression.

If you focus on where the instruments sit in the stereo field, everything except the bass, drums, and vocals are off to the sides. Pianos, pads, and guitars are often on both sides at once, through stereo miking/keyboard tracking, chorus or synth unison, and double tracking, respectively. This lets the instrumental sound big without getting in the way of the vocals. Except for the third example, which has been summed to mono for some indiscernible reason. Sounds like a classic "I'm a video editor and know nothing about audio" mistake.

Also, everything is very compressed. You can hear the snap of the snare as it gets squashed by the compressor, which makes it sound super beefy. And the vocals, too, sound really upfront, which requires a lot of compression. Both these things together give a dense, thick mix.

So it basically comes down to two things.

1) Spreading out the instruments in the stereo field keeping kick, bass and vocals centered.

2) Compressing the crap out of everything.

Is that about it?

[Aloysius]

Left to right is one dimension. Also listen from top to bottom. Are the instruments covering the entire frequency range? What's up top ? What down deep? If there is a large range, that will help with the bigness. Are the drums up front or in the background? If they're in the back, then that will help with the depth dimension. The snare is the 'back wall' of the track. If I wanted to sound like the video-music, I'd probably start by making a list of instruments used and work from there.

I haven't really listened to the music. I have an idea what it will sound like and I detest it. Jesus = awesome. Christian Music = sh*te imho.

[nineofkings]

Left to right is one dimension. Also listen from top to bottom. Are the instruments covering the entire frequency range? What's up top ? What down deep? If there is a large range, that will help with the bigness.

Yes, this too. So at its most essential it comes down to 3 things.

1) Spreading out the instruments in the stereo field keeping kick, bass and vocals centered.

2) Compressing the crap out of everything.

3) Ensuring that each instrument has its own defined place in the spectrum so that the mix as a whole fits together to have a full, balanced tone.

#3 is done through intentional arrangement decisions and EQ.

Also, a caveat, make sure the compression moves don't end up distorting the tracks or making them sound pinched. This is sort of a trial and error thing as it depends on the source material.

[wagtunes]

Left to right is one dimension. Also listen from top to bottom. Are the instruments covering the entire frequency range? What's up top ? What down deep? If there is a large range, that will help with the bigness.

Yes, this too. So at its most essential it comes down to 3 things.

1) Spreading out the instruments in the stereo field keeping kick, bass and vocals centered.

2) Compressing the crap out of everything.

3) Ensuring that each instrument has its own defined place in the spectrum so that the mix as a whole fits together to have a full, balanced tone.

#3 is done through intentional arrangement decisions and EQ.

Also, a caveat, make sure the compression moves don't end up distorting the tracks or making them sound pinched. This is sort of a trial and error thing as it depends on the source material.

Question: How difficult is it to get this sound? Does it take an awful lot of work or can it be arrived at fairly simply, especially with the tools we have today? Also is this even possible to do completely ITB?

[Aleatoriac]

I can't listen right now, no access to UTUBE!!! OMG!!

But I bet the do this:

Bass gets a parallel track
Drums (at least the shells ((or whatever equivalent is used)) get a parallel track
The rest of the tonal stuff gets another parallel track.
Each gets compression out the ass. Smashed to f**king hell and never back.

Then 10db boost low shelf at around 100 hz, another 10db boost high shelf around 10khz. On each parallel track.

Then fade each parallel track in "under" the mix.

Saturation on everything

Then smash teh f**king Satan out of everything into a brickwall so you get 2 db of dynamic range... if you're feeling super generous and the sun is shining. If not... 0.001 db dynamic range motherfuckers. It's the Jesus thing to do, god dammit.

Transient bastards: NONE SHALL PASS!

[wagtunes]

I can't listen right now, no access to UTUBE!!! OMG!!

But I bet the do this:

Bass gets a parallel track
Drums (at least the shells ((or whatever equivalent is used)) get a parallel track
The rest of the tonal stuff gets another parallel track.
Each gets compression out the ass. Smashed to f**king hell and never back.

Then 10db boost low shelf at around 100 hz, another 10db boost high shelf around 10khz. On each parallel track.

Then fade each parallel track in "under" the mix.

Saturation on everything

Then smash teh f**king Satan out of everything into a brickwall so you get 2 db of dynamic range... if you're feeling super generous and the sun is shining. If not... 0.001 db dynamic range motherfuckers. It's the Jesus thing to do, god dammit.

Transient bastards: NONE SHALL PASS!

When you say parallel track, do you mean double tracked? And if so, centered or panned left and right?

The boosts I'm assuming you mean with a multi band compressor?

[do_androids_dream]

I'm not sure I understand the question fully.. that 'sound' is the sound of contemporary pop. You get that sound by being really, really good at mixing Seriously. I could go into specifics but it really won't help that much - as the real thing that will get you that sound is, a serious desire to get that sound, and, hundreds and hundreds of hours of experimenting (in your own mixes) and researching individual techniques that add up to become what you hear. Remember too that the recording and performance are a huge part of that sound too.

[do_androids_dream]

One thing I will say.. You will notice that there's no searing high frequencies in any of those songs. Careful control of high frequencies is how you create depth in a mix - things you want to push back you low pass filter more basically. There are no magic bullets - it's knowing what you want to achieve - recording - and then skill with eq and compression in the main. Yes, saturation plays a role but there's no need to put it 'on everything'.

[wagtunes]

One thing I will say.. You will notice that there's no searing high frequencies in any of those songs. Careful control of high frequencies is how you create depth in a mix - things you want to push back you low pass filter more basically. There are no magic bullets - it's knowing what you want to achieve - recording - and then skill with eq and compression in the main. Yes, saturation plays a role but there's no need to put it 'on everything'.

Hmmm. What I want to achieve.

What I want to achieve is a sound that sounds like one big, fat, loud, controlled mess.

[Aleatoriac]

When you say parallel track, do you mean double tracked? And if so, centered or panned left and right?

The boosts I'm assuming you mean with a multi band compressor?

Not double tracked.
Say you have bass, for example, in mono. Single track.

However you do it in your DAW, you set up a new track, and then send a copy of the signal from the bass to that new track. Then on the new track, add, for example, your DAW's built in compressor. Broadband compressor. Single band.

If it has an attack control, set it between 0 (or as close as possible to that) and 10 milliseconds. If it has release, set it short, maybe some subdivision of the tempo of the track, who knows. 50 ms or so.
Then the ratio: 8:1 or so. Threshold, down enough to get 10 to 12 db of gain reduction.

Then the EQ can go after the compressor.

I don't see why one could not use a multiband compressor if one wants to do this on a single parallel track, then take sends from whatever individual components of the rest of the mix...

I was sort of joking in my response, but I bet it's something like this. I've been doing this on as yet unreleased stuff, and sneaking it in just a little (maybe peaking around -15, -12 db) under the other stuff, and using very little compression on the main tracks.

But since it's Comtemporary Christian music, I bet you dollars (and yen, rubies, pesos, etc.) to confectionery that they've sold their souls to SAY-TAN!!!! And that's how you REALLY get that sound.

I'm lit. Shouldn't be posting.

[do_androids_dream]

What I want to achieve is a sound that sounds like one big, fat, loud, controlled mess.

Imo, the most skilled I've heard at pushing the boundaries of what you describe is Yasutaka Nakata. His projects include Perfume and Capsule - hyper compressed but very skilled productions that are very saturated and loud. One technique to get very loud masters is to reduce bass content so it doesn't trigger the limiter..