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tapper mike
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4398 posts since 19 Jan, 2008

Postby tapper mike; Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:44 am Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

I was looking at some videos for various string plugins the other day. The biggest selling point of them were phrases / motifs for things that may not be available to the average keyboard player with average keyboard.

If you compare what is possible with let us say... Roli Rise, linnstrument or Artiphon instrument one. Many of those "features" of various instrument libraries become irrelevant.
pdxindy
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11981 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:10 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

yes
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wagtunes
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8200 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:13 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

I don't even know what MPE means so I'll say no. Won't affect my future purchases at all.
Cinebient
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2377 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Postby Cinebient; Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:27 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

Yes.
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Ingonator
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11336 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:35 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

For those who do not use e.g. LinnStrument, Eigenharp, Seaboard or other controllers that benefit from MPE ("Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression") it does not really seem to matter.

Those controllers still seem to be rarely used and mostly also quite expensive.

The LinnStrument for each key sems to support Strike Velocity, Pressure (Z axis), Left-Right (X axis), Front-Back (Y axis) and Release Velocity. With the normal/old MIDI specs not all of those seem to work.

At the moment this does not really matter for me. My main controllers are NI Komplete Kontrol S61 and Novation UltraNova (which is also a synth). I am happy for softsynths that officially support NKS but also without official support you could map controls yourself and save patches as NKS presets.
Ingo Weidner - Sound Design
HW: Blofeld, Pulse 2, UltraNova, Bass Station 2
SW: PPG 3.V, Largo, Nave, Icarus, Avenger, Serum, Legend, Saurus 2, Diva, Komplete 10, many more
i5-3350P / Win 10 x64 / Live 9 / Cubase Pro 9 / Studio One 3 / Bitwig 2
Cinebient
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2377 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Postby Cinebient; Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:39 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

Ingonator wrote:For those who do not use e.g. LinnStrument, Eigenharp, Seaboard or other controllers that benefit from MPE ("Multidimensional Polyphonic Expression") it does not really seem to matter.
For example the LinnStrument doe each key supports Strike Velocity, Pressure (Z axis), Left-Right (X axis), Front-Back (Y axis) and Release Velocity.

Those controllers still seem to be rarely used and mostly also quite expensive.

At the moment this does not really matter for me. My main controllers are NI Komplete Kontrol S61 and Novation UltraNova (which is also a synth). I am happy for softsynths that officially support NKS but also without official support you could map controls yourself and save patches as NKS presets.


True, but there are also one dollar apps (or a few more) these days if you want/need that which you can use as midi controller.
Or other controllers like Roli Blocks etc.
Also there are coming more of these controllers in near future which might be more affordable.
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EvilDragon
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14561 posts since 6 Jan, 2009, from Croatia

Postby EvilDragon; Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:51 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

It might. I do plan on getting a Seaboard Rise 49 eventually.
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Ingonator
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11336 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:54 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

Well, i also found that many developers of MIDI controllers and also newer hardware synths seem to exclude aftertouch which is a bad development IMO. This is not just missing on cheap models but even on more expensive ones.
Recently the Korg controllers and synths seem to be some of the worst there.
Not even the Korg Krome which is far from cheap does not seem to support it, same woth Korg KingKorg. Even my more than 30 years old Korg DW-8000 has this included (could be routed to vibrato, Cutoff and volume) and my Wavestation EX built in 1991 too...

There was a long time when aftertouch was more or less a kind of standard feature. Developers of controllers should at least support this quite very old feature before thinking about MPE support...

From the 7 keyboards i own at the moment (where mostly i use only 2 or 3 at the moment) only the Ensoniq ESQ-1 does not support aftertouch while it could recieve it via MIDI and aftertouch is also available as a mod source in the sound engine there.
Ingo Weidner - Sound Design
HW: Blofeld, Pulse 2, UltraNova, Bass Station 2
SW: PPG 3.V, Largo, Nave, Icarus, Avenger, Serum, Legend, Saurus 2, Diva, Komplete 10, many more
i5-3350P / Win 10 x64 / Live 9 / Cubase Pro 9 / Studio One 3 / Bitwig 2
Cinebient
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2377 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Postby Cinebient; Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:01 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

Ingonator wrote:Well, i also found that many developers of MIDI controllers and also newer hardware synths seem to exclude aftertouch which is a bad development IMO. This is not just missing on cheap models but even on more expensive ones.
Recently the Korg controllers and synths seem to be some of the worst there.
Not even the Korg Krome which is far from cheap does not seem to support it, same woth Korg KingKorg. Even my more than 30 years old Korg DW-8000 has this included (could be routed to vibrato, Cutoff and volume) and my Wavestation EX built in 1991 too...

There was a long time when aftertouch was more or less a kind of standard feature. Developers of controllers should at least support this quite very old feature before thinking about MPE support...

From the 7 keyboards i own at the moment (where mostly i use only 2 or 3 at the moment) only the Ensoniq ESQ-1 does not support aftertouch while it could recieve it via MIDI and aftertouch is also available as a mod source in the sound engine there.


That's indeed odd. Even my cheap (under 150€) Samson Graphite 49 has it (which i sold a while ago)....not polyphonic but still useful.
pdxindy
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11981 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:08 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

Ingonator wrote:Well, i also found that many developers of MIDI controllers and also newer hardware synths seem to exclude aftertouch which is a bad development IMO.


Yeah... the Roland System 8 is a $1500 keyboard without even channel AT
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Ingonator
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11336 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:13 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

Besides mostly hating synths/controllers without aftertouch i never owned a synth or controller with mini keys so far. Mini keys are quite useless IMO except maybe if you have very small fingers...

The worst for me would be having Mini keys with no aftertouch... :x

Not to forget i prefer Modwheels over pitch sticks and joysticks (most Roland keyboards are worst for me in that respect). The ribbons/touch-strips in my NI Komplete Kontrol S61 work nicely too for me.
Last edited by Ingonator on Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ingo Weidner - Sound Design
HW: Blofeld, Pulse 2, UltraNova, Bass Station 2
SW: PPG 3.V, Largo, Nave, Icarus, Avenger, Serum, Legend, Saurus 2, Diva, Komplete 10, many more
i5-3350P / Win 10 x64 / Live 9 / Cubase Pro 9 / Studio One 3 / Bitwig 2
pdxindy
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11981 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:18 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

Ingonator wrote:
There was a long time when aftertouch was more or less a kind of standard feature. Developers of controllers should at least support this quite very old feature before thinking about MPE support...


Many people these days do not really play the keyboard. It is rather a note/modulation input device with much of their creative effort taking place after. Many of those people do not particularly care much about aftertouch anyway.

And for the people who really like to play, channel aftertouch sucks compared to poly aftertouch.

So I think there might actually be a split into two directions with 'standard' channel aftertouch kinda fading out in the middle.
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Ingonator
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11336 posts since 21 Mar, 2008, from Hannover, Germany

Postby Ingonator; Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:33 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

pdxindy wrote:
Ingonator wrote:
There was a long time when aftertouch was more or less a kind of standard feature. Developers of controllers should at least support this quite very old feature before thinking about MPE support...


Many people these days do not really play the keyboard. It is rather a note/modulation input device with much of their creative effort taking place after. Many of those people do not particularly care much about aftertouch anyway.

And for the people who really like to play, channel aftertouch sucks compared to poly aftertouch.

So I think there might actually be a split into two directions with 'standard' channel aftertouch kinda fading out in the middle.


Poly aftetouch is still far from being standard and actually very rare (as rare as units that need MPE support) especially with new keyboards so when i talk about aftertouch i mostly mean channel aftertouch. Even that one which is known since ages and used in countless keyboards in the past is missing in many new synths and controllers as alraedy mentioned so before that is not included we do not really have to discuss poly AT here...

Keith McMillen QuNexus seems to have poly AT but the size of the keys (which are actually pads) makes it more like it lok more like a "toy" for me. The K-Board Pro 4 MPE keyboard does not seem to be available yet (pre-order is 599$).
Ingo Weidner - Sound Design
HW: Blofeld, Pulse 2, UltraNova, Bass Station 2
SW: PPG 3.V, Largo, Nave, Icarus, Avenger, Serum, Legend, Saurus 2, Diva, Komplete 10, many more
i5-3350P / Win 10 x64 / Live 9 / Cubase Pro 9 / Studio One 3 / Bitwig 2
pdxindy
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11981 posts since 2 Feb, 2005, from in the wilds

Postby pdxindy; Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:39 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

Ingonator wrote:so before that is not included we do not really have to discuss poly AT here...


actually, yes we do... since this is a thread about MPE and MPE includes what is in effect poly AT
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Dillinger
KVRist
 
56 posts since 2 Apr, 2016

Postby Dillinger; Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:45 am Re: Will MPE affect your future plugin purchasing habits?

Expressive MIDI will influence my future purchasing decisions. I look forward to more than on-off notes and miss the solos that have disappeared in modern music.
Last edited by Dillinger on Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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