MUTOOLS

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:30 pm

Hi,

I just installed VielklangCM (64 bit version on Windows 10 HP laptop). The first time I tried it, I could open it and try to harmonize a vocal track, but got no sound. I then tried to close and reopen the project, but now I get a warning saying that MuLab is about to crash (gracefully) when I hit the Transpose key in VielklangCM. I have repeated the process with the same result.

I can't find anything on Vielklang in this forum, so does anybody know anything about this? It says that three errors are logged, but I don't know where to find them so I can't share them.

Thanks!

Petter

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:43 am

Hi,

I have tried again today and confirm that the exact same error appears:

1. Open an existing MuLab project that works fine.
2. Add an instrument track, and choose Vielklang2CM.dll
3. Import an audio file to Vielklang and click Harmonize.
4. Press play in MuLab. No sound appears from Vielklang.
5. Quit without save.
6. Restart MuLab, and repeat steps 1 and 2.
7. Before you get to the piano roll editor in Vielklang, it crashes when the Select key window appears. MuLab says there is an error and asks if you want to save the file. Say no.
8. MuLab says "Three errors logged."

I can't believe that there are no Vielklang users in the MuLab community, so I'd really appreciate reponse on this matter.

I have tried the Windows audio mapping and also switching to ASIO4All, but to no effect.

Taifunk · Post by **Taifunk** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:07 pm

I'm not a vielklang user, anyway I have a copy of the cm software so I installed it and tested it.
I followed your steps and everything works perfectly, no crashes and I get the correct sound from mulab.
You can check if the crash happens in another daw?

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:38 pm

Hi,

Thanks A LOT for taking the time to try helping me out! I have tried to follow your advice:
- tried the free version of Studio One, but it didn't support VST plugins
- tried Reaper, and as usual with Reaper (unless you're a diehard user of it), it's hard to know why things don't work. It doesn't crash on me, but I get no sound (actually, the fader meter moves, but it's red whereas the others are green).
- have just downloaded Ardour, but my online anti-virus software won't let me run it yet, so I'll have to wait a few hours or so...

...so this is where I am at right now. I trie both ASIO4ALL and The WIndows Mapper thingy.

Thanks again!

mutools · Post by **mutools** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:40 pm

Another (out of the box) idea: Try a different plugin? Maye you can even do it using MUX Modular?

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:19 pm

mutools wrote:Another (out of the box) idea: Try a different plugin? Maye you can even do it using MUX Modular?

YES PLEASE!

If anyone could develop a pitch-correction plus harmonizer plug using MUX, I would feel like... wow.

Not sure that's realistic though: what I want is to harmonize lead vocals, and Vielklang not only harmonizes, but does so intelligently, using music composition rules to achieve this.

I tired quickly of Ardour as it was too tricky to use a VST plugin in it

Can this be an ASIO issue perhaps? Would it help if I send the "3 logs"? Or would it help if I use another driver? I'm really envious of those who can get this to work, but at the moment, I have little clue of what to search for.

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:34 pm

By the way, what perhaps actually COULD be done in MUX would be to feed a harmonizer with MIDI.

This is a demo of the VielklangCM plugin

https://youtu.be/f1EnR8R-0Ew

mutools · Post by **mutools** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:59 pm

Sorry i didn't know it was something like that, now i do.

Taifunk · Post by **Taifunk** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:21 pm

It took only a few minutes,no problem SparkySpark.

Everything seems to work in reaper too,tested both 32/64 bit vst versions,I also did a further test using mux modular vst as a host, all work properly.
I want to help to narrow the issue but I suspect there is a problem with vielklang and windows 10 ,but unfortunately I can not check(I'm on windows 7 64bit).

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:31 pm

Hi again, thanks a lot for checking Reaper too. You're right , it might have to do with Win 10. I will install some other drivers and see if it works better. If all fails I think I dig up my old Win 7 computer and try there.

Really good to hear that it actually should work with MuLab. I occasionally get problems with automation sub tracks failing to do anything at all when I open exiating tracks, so perhaps my system is a bit messed up.

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:21 pm

Actually it now works, just like magic. My setup seems indeed a bit shakey but I think I can use it as a "standalone " product, bouncing wav files back and forth. I am not complaining since it really adds another dimension to my music.

My workflow is now like this:

1. Record lead vocal in MuLab.
2. Correct timing and volume issues.
3. Export to wav file.
4. Import in Melodyne (cheapest version). Fix intonation (tuning) issues.
5. Export and open up Vielklang in separate DAW window.
6. Import to Vielklang in that DAW, harmonize, and set output volume of lead to zero. Export.
7. Import the tuned dry lead, and the chorus wav file in separate stereo track, in MuLab.

Works great!

A question: when fixing volume issues I use DSP Gain instead of creating an automation subtrack. Is there a downside to that approach?

mutools · Post by **mutools** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:15 am

No not really a downside, just be aware you're directly altering the audio file itself instead of applying a realtime gain, but that's maybe a good thing in that case, you have to evaluate/decide that.

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:52 am

mutools wrote:No not really a downside, just be aware you're directly altering the audio file itself instead of applying a realtime gain, but that's maybe a good thing in that case, you have to evaluate/decide that.

Hi, thanks Jo.

Well, I can't figure out the best way to apply automation in MuLab otherwise. In hosts like Cubase, the automation volume envelope is drawn directly on the waveform, making it easy to see where the edit is done. In MuLab I think I need to do this in an automation subtrack. That's fine, but makes it hard to pinpoint where I am as I can't see the waveform at the same time. (Perhaps it's possible to do this below the waveform in the pane where velocity usually is shown, but if so, it's still not so easy to see the exact spot for a too loud word or so, I guess.)

So, that is why I stick to right-click > DSP > Gain and guess for an appropriate level. Is there a better way of working with automation on a lead vocal, that I don't know of?

mutools · Post by **mutools** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:47 am

If you are using the audio file as a "Streamed Audio File" then you see the waveform in the composer. And you can add an automation (sub-)track below that and then you see both the audio and the automation curve.

SparkySpark · Post by **SparkySpark** » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:51 pm

mutools wrote:If you are using the audio file as a "Streamed Audio File" then you see the waveform in the composer. And you can add an automation (sub-)track below that and then you see both the audio and the automation curve.

Thanks for your reply! Yes, I know - it also looks very cool.

So you mean that I actually do the subautomation track editing directly in Composer view, by zooming in on those two tracks? Haven't thought of that, but that must do the trick.

Or did I misunderstand?

MUTOOLS

KVR Audio

Vielklang CM crashes my copy of MuLab