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Cinebient
KVRAF
 
3406 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Postby Cinebient; Sat May 19, 2018 3:06 am Hold My Hand (strings only)

Since it´s spamming week here (sorry).... another one....last one for a week....i swear :wink:
Strings only. Used here: Hans Zimmer Strings (just bass here), Violins/Violas/Cellos (NOVO-RT), Solo Violin and Cello (Bohemian Violin & Cello).
https://soundcloud.com/user-790535032/hold-my-hand
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wagtunes
KVRAF
 
11710 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Sat May 19, 2018 10:12 am Re: Hold My Hand (strings only)

I'll be the first to comment.

That was really nice. What else is there to say?

I have to admit, the Hans Zimmer Bass sounds really good. The rest of the sounds I'm not quite ready to throw my EWQL and Chris Hein (violin and cello) in the trash just yet. They're nice sounding but I didn't hear anything that blew me away to the point where I'm ready to open up my wallet again. But there's no question, these products do sound fine.

I wasn't aware this was spamming week.

Guess I didn't get the memo.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
 
35378 posts since 25 Jan, 2003, from through the looking glass

Postby vurt; Sat May 19, 2018 11:49 am Re: Hold My Hand (strings only)

wagtunes wrote:
Guess I didn't get the memo.


check your spam folder...
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ChamMusic
KVRist
 
464 posts since 12 Jun, 2006, from Birmingham, UK

Postby ChamMusic; Sat May 19, 2018 2:02 pm Re: Hold My Hand (strings only)

wagtunes wrote:That was really nice. What else is there to say?


Lots...

Overall it creates a certain intense cinematic atmosphere quite effectively, but it could be improved even further:

1) It needs more textural variety. Writing for strings (MIDI or real) is tricky and it's all to easy to make a track sound quite 'samey' throughout. It would be nice to hear more variety in articulation as well.

2) I don't like using the phrase 'wrong notes', but in the overall harmonic context of the piece there are moments that made me wince slightly; notes that simply didn't fit to my ear.

wagtunes wrote:I'm not quite ready to throw my EWQL and Chris Hein (violin and cello) in the trash just yet.


To a large extent, the library you use is far less important than the editing and ongoing automation if you want to make it sound 'realistic'. String sounds for example constantly ebb and flow in many ways and samples are generally too static. You have to automate them in terms of:

1) Subtle ongoing pitch shifts (harder bowing (velocity) often sharpens the pitch a little bit for example + sustained notes are rarely 100% exact in pitch.

2) Subtle ongoing shifts in frequency content..again higher velocity / harder bowing can create a brighter sound for example.

3) Subtle ongoing shifts in volume. I hear so many pieces where sustained notes never ebb and flow dynamically.

Real sounds are constantly, subtly 'moving'. You usually have to automate samples to make them do this. without this automation, even the 'best' library will be quite limited.

I could go on, but I won't! :0)
Mark Taylor
Chameleon Music
Cinebient
KVRAF
 
3406 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Postby Cinebient; Sun May 20, 2018 12:40 am Re: Hold My Hand (strings only)

wagtunes wrote:I'll be the first to comment.

That was really nice. What else is there to say?

I have to admit, the Hans Zimmer Bass sounds really good. The rest of the sounds I'm not quite ready to throw my EWQL and Chris Hein (violin and cello) in the trash just yet. They're nice sounding but I didn't hear anything that blew me away to the point where I'm ready to open up my wallet again. But there's no question, these products do sound fine.

I wasn't aware this was spamming week.

Guess I didn't get the memo.


Thank´s. I neither own EWQL or any Chris Hein strings yet and so i can´t comment on this.
Of course there is much overlap in all these instruments.
The only thing i´m waiting for now is Emotional Violin from Harmonic Subtones & Best Service but it´s delayed now several times. Might take some time.
Of course if you happy with what you have there is no reason to "replace it" with anything.
Cinebient
KVRAF
 
3406 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Postby Cinebient; Sun May 20, 2018 12:54 am Re: Hold My Hand (strings only)

ChamMusic wrote:
wagtunes wrote:That was really nice. What else is there to say?


Lots...

Overall it creates a certain intense cinematic atmosphere quite effectively, but it could be improved even further:

1) It needs more textural variety. Writing for strings (MIDI or real) is tricky and it's all to easy to make a track sound quite 'samey' throughout. It would be nice to hear more variety in articulation as well.

2) I don't like using the phrase 'wrong notes', but in the overall harmonic context of the piece there are moments that made me wince slightly; notes that simply didn't fit to my ear.

wagtunes wrote:I'm not quite ready to throw my EWQL and Chris Hein (violin and cello) in the trash just yet.


To a large extent, the library you use is far less important than the editing and ongoing automation if you want to make it sound 'realistic'. String sounds for example constantly ebb and flow in many ways and samples are generally too static. You have to automate them in terms of:

1) Subtle ongoing pitch shifts (harder bowing (velocity) often sharpens the pitch a little bit for example + sustained notes are rarely 100% exact in pitch.

2) Subtle ongoing shifts in frequency content..again higher velocity / harder bowing can create a brighter sound for example.

3) Subtle ongoing shifts in volume. I hear so many pieces where sustained notes never ebb and flow dynamically.

Real sounds are constantly, subtly 'moving'. You usually have to automate samples to make them do this. without this automation, even the 'best' library will be quite limited.

I could go on, but I won't! :0)


Thank´s for your opinion and advice. Indeed i just play everything live and don´t do any automation (also in my electronic songs). I really hate drawing automations and edit midi (yeah i should) and i also "play" my automations or FX morph live normally or it is programmed in the tool itself.
Of course for strings and other orchestra sounds it isn´t the best way if i ever want to be good in make midi mock-ups and such.
F.e. something like Hans Zimmer Strings is great but really is made for a lot work trough automations, drawing dynamics and stuff rather than a ready to play tool and i just bought this libraries mainly to use within hybrid or cinematic ambient pieces.
I guess it´s hard to make a great plug n´play string library which seems much more easy with keys and other instruments.
For live play i indeed might prefer physical modeling tools like Finger Fiddle app which can easy morph articulations, bow speed, pressure and more in a much more natural way i heard in any of the expensive libraries with GB of real samples.
I like the Bohemian Cello and Violin since it is closer to such a plug n´play thing.
My favorite string library might be NOVO still since you can really program it in depth if you want just a patch to perform live without much need of tons of keyswitching or automations etc.
So the composer part might be where i should get much better of course.
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ChamMusic
KVRist
 
464 posts since 12 Jun, 2006, from Birmingham, UK

Postby ChamMusic; Sun May 20, 2018 2:54 am Re: Hold My Hand (strings only)

NOVO is very useful - I own both Intimate and the new Rhythmic Textures and they are great at quickly adding a little edge of life to a piece.

I also find this one extremely useful for quickly adding movement and energy(often necessary when I'm working to tight deadlines):

https://www.cinematique-instruments.com ... blia15.php

Key switches and automation can be a pain, but I tend to play them 'live' whenever possible...takes a bit of practice, but it's easier eventually and actually more natural as well.

I've said before on KVR - I'm NOT a huge fan of MIDI trying to emulate real instruments in general as it is not what it's best at for me. As an old orchestral player, I can always hear the difference, however good the programming is, and it's never close to 100% satisfactory.

Solo Strings-wise there's a couple of great Reaktor Modules that work well 'live'. This one was a favourite for months:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r ... show/7463/
Mark Taylor
Chameleon Music

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