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SLiC
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2489 posts since 2 Dec, 2004, from North Wales

Postby SLiC; Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:52 am Output - subscription based loop player!

Current Gear: i7 Win 10 + Surface, BWS, StudioOne 4, X32 Desk. Rubicon R8s, DM12, P8, Virus TI, System 1m, Korg ARP, P6, Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, OT, MPC Live, OP-1, Mother 32, Dominion Club, Roland TD8 and HPD-20, Guitars, Basses and Amps
db3
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1741 posts since 22 Aug, 2012

Postby db3; Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:45 pm Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

I normally avoid using loops, but this looks kinda interesting. Pity subscription only (100 days free), but at least you can keep content created if you cancel.

https://output.com/arcade
-dthree-
SLiC
KVRAF
 
2489 posts since 2 Dec, 2004, from North Wales

Postby SLiC; Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:13 pm Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

You have to enter your credit card details to get the 100 days free....they start charging then if you forget to cancel....at least with Roland Cloud you could try it without giving up your credit card details..
Current Gear: i7 Win 10 + Surface, BWS, StudioOne 4, X32 Desk. Rubicon R8s, DM12, P8, Virus TI, System 1m, Korg ARP, P6, Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, OT, MPC Live, OP-1, Mother 32, Dominion Club, Roland TD8 and HPD-20, Guitars, Basses and Amps
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aMUSEd
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29433 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:22 pm Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

Was interested until I got to the bit where it looks like it ties up your black keys for modifiers - do they think no one use black keys for playing anymore?
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rod_zero
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2824 posts since 28 Jan, 2011, from MEXICO

Postby rod_zero; Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:33 pm Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

What is interesting, as stated in the videos, is that what ever you already did will remain in the project if you cancel the subscription.
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rod_zero
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2824 posts since 28 Jan, 2011, from MEXICO

Postby rod_zero; Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:34 pm Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

On a second look while I know that tools are just that this looks clearly target those of us thatare very lazy. XD
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martinjuenke
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1288 posts since 28 Dec, 2015, from Germany

Postby martinjuenke; Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:35 pm Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

How does this compare to Native Instruments Sounds
(which seems to stay in Beta forever obviously)?
Music was my first love ...
atmospheric electronic music
http://www.sonoryth.bandcamp.com
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el-bo (formerly ebow)
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9996 posts since 24 May, 2009, from A galaxy, far far away

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:04 pm Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

aMUSEd wrote:Was interested until I got to the bit where it looks like it ties up your black keys for modifiers - do they think no one use black keys for playing anymore?


Nope! Clearly everybody uses scalers/modifiers :wink: Joking aside, I think this really is just loop-based, as opposed to single, playable instruments, in which case there is no need for the black keys :shrug:
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aMUSEd
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29433 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:07 pm Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

Yeah I guess so, in which case even less interested, but I was thinking it could be used something like Form but maybe not?

It's very pretty - their GUI designers are excellent.
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
 
6912 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:34 am Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

SLiC wrote:You have to enter your credit card details to get the 100 days free....they start charging then if you forget to cancel....at least with Roland Cloud you could try it without giving up your credit card details..

Really? For 100 days? Think about it, you get charged once and for just $10 you can keep everything you downloaded over 130 days. Would you rather a demo with a handful of content and then an up-front cost of something like $99 to buy into the full product? I think this is an incredibly generous deal, to the point I wonder how they can possibly afford to do it.
aMUSEd wrote:Was interested until I got to the bit where it looks like it ties up your black keys for modifiers - do they think no one use black keys for playing anymore?

It only uses two octaves of keys - white keys to trigger loops and black keys for modifiers - the rest are there for your use as desired.
rod_zero wrote:On a second look while I know that tools are just that this looks clearly target those of us that are very lazy. XD

What? How do you figure that? The toolset looks really deep. Sure, you can probably use it in a very lazy way but I believe this is exactly where the future lies for music software. Anything that suits lazy producers will allow the rest of us to get heaps more work done in the limited time most of us have to do our work, whilst also allowing us deep access to get our perfect result every time.

That's what I love about Substance - unlike Massive or DUNE or Zebra or any of those things, Substance doesn't throw up roadblocks to your creativity, it gets out of the way and let's you get on with it. NI's TRK-01 does the same thing but in a different way and I'm hopeful that Arcade will be another of these next-gen tools. And I've got 100 days to decide, which is amazing.
Last edited by BONES on Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Surface Pro 2 (Core i5, Win10), Zoom U24, Orion 64 bit, Maschine Mikro, Elektron Analog Keys, Ultranova, Rocket, Seaboard Rise 25
SLiC
KVRAF
 
2489 posts since 2 Dec, 2004, from North Wales

Postby SLiC; Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:19 am Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

BONES wrote:
SLiC wrote:You have to enter your credit card details to get the 100 days free....they start charging then if you forget to cancel....at least with Roland Cloud you could try it without giving up your credit card details..

Really? For 100 days? Think about it, you get charged once and for just $10 you can keep everything you downloaded over 130 days. Would you rather a demo with a handful of content and then an up-front cost of something like $99 to buy into the full product? I think this is an incredibly generous deal, to the point I wonder how they can possibly afford to do it.


My point was realy that if you are just going to have a quick look at something I don't want to have to enter credit card details for a free demo- I hate auto-subscription as I always forget to cancel :dog: (I still have stuff going out on iTunes that I cant even remember what it is, every time I see the payment I think 'I must log in and cancel that' then promptly forget!

Roland managed a free 30 days without a CC, pretty sure Output could have done the same.

PS- I realy dont want any 'loops' (there are lots of free loops on Outputs site, I have never downloaded them) or even a free loop player with fx (I have Movement), so I am probably not the target audiance, but as I own an realy like a lot of the Output plugs I would have probaly tried it just for fun if no CC was involved and whio knows, maybe I wuld have got hooked and become and ejay!
Current Gear: i7 Win 10 + Surface, BWS, StudioOne 4, X32 Desk. Rubicon R8s, DM12, P8, Virus TI, System 1m, Korg ARP, P6, Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, OT, MPC Live, OP-1, Mother 32, Dominion Club, Roland TD8 and HPD-20, Guitars, Basses and Amps
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BONES
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6912 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:04 am Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

Does Roland need content like this does, though? It seems to me that Output are basically giving away tons and tons of free loops. Have you seen how much content there is? I've actually popped back over here while I wait for it to download the stuff I've chosen from Obsidian, which is just one of a dozen or more "Lines". And I'm downloading less than half of it.

I'm comparing it to the Signal demo, in particular, which only comes with a tiny amount of demo content and is hardly worth the effort of installing. This seems like a much better deal and if you're like me and forget to cancel subscriptions, go and cancel it now. It will probably still run the full hundred days. Personally, by the time mid-September rocks around, which is when my 100 day trial ends, I'll probably be more than happy to pay my monthly subscription for a year or more, just to repay Output's generosity.
SLiC wrote:PS- I realy dont want any 'loops' (there are lots of free loops on Outputs site, I have never downloaded them) or even a free loop player with fx (I have Movement), so I am probably not the target audiance, but as I own an realy like a lot of the Output plugs I would have probaly tried it just for fun if no CC was involved and whio knows, maybe I wuld have got hooked and become and ejay!

So you haven't even listened to it? I've listened to the demo of every kit in Obsidian and I don't think I heard anything I'd describe as a "loop". If you really do own other Output stuff, I'm surprised that you'd think this was something so straightforward and obvious.
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Surface Pro 2 (Core i5, Win10), Zoom U24, Orion 64 bit, Maschine Mikro, Elektron Analog Keys, Ultranova, Rocket, Seaboard Rise 25
msorrels
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224 posts since 30 Oct, 2002

Postby msorrels; Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:45 am Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

I signed up, thought I'd give it a try. UI isn't resizable. On my 4096x2160 monitor it's very small. The installer doesn't let you pick where the content is stored, you can only do that inside the plugin itself, which it then copies all the content it stuffed on your C: drive to the location. The installer does let you pick some directories but what it ended up doing was putting copies of the vst2 and vst3 plugins in the dir I specified. And it also put those same things in the standard vst3 location as well as C:\Program Files\VstPlugIns instead of reading the registry and putting them in my 64 bit vst2 directory. Perhaps they should think about what their installer needs to do and have it let the user pick those things. Ie directory to install VST2 plugin. Check box for installing VST3 plugin. Directory to install content to. And it really shouldn't default anything to C:\

It crashed twice in about 10 minutes under Cubase 9.5 (Windows 7 64bit). Once trying to load a kit, the second time while playing a loop and adding some effect keys. No crash handler, no crash reporting. The crash on kit load happened again, though never on the same kit. Though I could be wrong, the kit names are so generic and bland I'm not sure I was trying the same thing twice.

I really like Signal and REV, but the sounds they have right now in Arcade just aren't all that good, or that many really. The player features seem complex and powerful until you actually try using them. The effects workflow is just kind of painful. It may be able to do great things but I found it mostly just annoying and unproductive.

The downloading kits/loops seemed kind of slow (on 150mb FiOS), you'd press the download button and the progress would get to half way and it would just wait for a long time then suddenly finish. Then you had to press the load button to get the kit into Arcade. Even the previews seem awkward, had to keep clicking on sound icons. When using loops I really like a much, much, much faster audition process.

The crashes make it somewhat unsuitable for serious use. The laptop sized unresizeable GUI makes it a total fail. Maybe it will get better. I've added an event on my Calendar to make sure I cancel before September. For this to be worth $120/year they will need to expand the content a lot and fix a bunch of software development things.
-Matt
SLiC
KVRAF
 
2489 posts since 2 Dec, 2004, from North Wales

Postby SLiC; Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:02 am Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

BONES wrote:
SLiC wrote:PS- I realy dont want any 'loops' (there are lots of free loops on Outputs site, I have never downloaded them) or even a free loop player with fx (I have Movement), so I am probably not the target audiance, but as I own an realy like a lot of the Output plugs I would have probaly tried it just for fun if no CC was involved and whio knows, maybe I wuld have got hooked and become and ejay!

So you haven't even listened to it? I've listened to the demo of every kit in Obsidian and I don't think I heard anything I'd describe as a "loop". If you really do own other Output stuff, I'm surprised that you'd think this was something so straightforward and obvious.


I own Exhale + expantions, Signal, Substance and Analog Strings (the last 3 from the NI 50% off sale)
That's why I know the demo sounds exactly like what I already own but will less options. I liked that sound the first time, that's why I bought it. There are more loops and instruments in the products I own than I will ever use (just checked the folder. ovver 50Gigs, who has the time!)

I also own Movement (got that one free with hardware) so can prety much make any loop sound like loops they were playing, nothing special at all, good sourse material (of which I have 50 Gigs) and FX.

Anyway- have fun with the demo, I will watch for feedback, I never say never but I already have the Roland Cloud subscription....
Current Gear: i7 Win 10 + Surface, BWS, StudioOne 4, X32 Desk. Rubicon R8s, DM12, P8, Virus TI, System 1m, Korg ARP, P6, Eurorack, Elektron A4, RYTM, OT, MPC Live, OP-1, Mother 32, Dominion Club, Roland TD8 and HPD-20, Guitars, Basses and Amps
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
 
6912 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:44 am Re: Output - subscription based loop player!

Did you completely miss the point of my comment or what? You were talking about it like it was an instrument that plays loops but, like every other Output product, it is way more than that. There are 100 ways to play loops, I don't think there are too many ways to take loops and do what this thing can do to them.
msorrels wrote:UI isn't resizable. On my 4096x2160 monitor it's very small.

Oh, Dog! Another idiot who thinks a 4k monitor is meant to run at something less than 200% scaling and then complains because his application UIs are too small. Spare me days! Are you sure Cubase is resizing the GUI to whatever scaling you're using? I know Albleton doesn't. I very much doubt it's Output's problem. A 4k monitor is nothing but a con.
The installer doesn't let you pick where the content is stored, you can only do that inside the plugin itself, which it then copies all the content it stuffed on your C: drive to the location.

That's perfect because you download all the content from "inside the plugin itself". You only get a tiny bit of demo content with the initial install.
The installer does let you pick some directories but what it ended up doing was putting copies of the vst2 and vst3 plugins in the dir I specified. And it also put those same things in the standard vst3 location as well as C:\Program Files\VstPlugIns instead of reading the registry and putting them in my 64 bit vst2 directory.

There is no registry entry for 64 bit VST plugins, only for 32 bit VST.
And it really shouldn't default anything to C:\

Of course it should, that's where 99% of people will install applications to. That's certainly where all mine go these days, as does my content. It's just easier.
It crashed twice in about 10 minutes under Cubase 9.5 (Windows 7 64bit). Once trying to load a kit, the second time while playing a loop and adding some effect keys.

I've just spent more than two hours with it in Orion (64 bit in Windows 10) and had no issues at all. Maybe it's time you got rid of your ancient OS and joined the rest of the world in 2018?
Then you had to press the load button to get the kit into Arcade.

Of course you do. You can only have one kit loaded at a time so you wouldn't 'want it to suddenly load a kit it just finished downloading while you were in the middle of editing something in a different kit, would you?
Even the previews seem awkward, had to keep clicking on sound icons. When using loops I really like a much, much, much faster audition process.

Once they are downloaded, auditioning is instantaneous.
For this to be worth $120/year they will need to expand the content a lot and fix a bunch of software development things.

Right now, on Day 1, there are 14 Lines, each with around 30 Kits, with each kit containing 15 loops. That's well over 6,000 loops. With the promise of "new content every day" it should be more than 8,000 loops by the time you have to starting paying (a kit being the smallest new thing they can add) and you don't think all that is worth $10? Seriously?
NOVAkILL 3.0 : Surface Pro 2 (Core i5, Win10), Zoom U24, Orion 64 bit, Maschine Mikro, Elektron Analog Keys, Ultranova, Rocket, Seaboard Rise 25
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