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Apple ditches IBM power PC chip and will use Intel.

Configure and optimize you computer for Audio.

Moderator: Moderators (Main)

Symbiant
KVRist
 
44 posts since 3 Sep, 2002, from here & now

Postby Symbiant; Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:51 pm

http://stream.apple.akadns.net/

announcement is about 28mins in
"it is my firm belief that it is a mistake to hold firm beliefs"
biomechanoid website: www.universal-communication.net/biomechanoid/bio02.html
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
 
6423 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:02 pm

stefankuhn wrote:Apple users will and have always been taking the drawback of higher prices for the opportunity to work with an operating system and software they consider to be superiour over anything that is available on x86 right now.

In my industry [film/broadcast graphics/vfx], most Mac users couldn't give you a valid reason for using it if their life depended on it. They are Mac users simply because they don't know any better. Its what they used at art school in 1990 and they have never questioned it. Apple's biggest marketing advantage is their users ignorance. That's why their marketing claims are so outrageous - they know that their target market will accept it without question. The G5 is a couple of years old now and still only supports DX-optimised gamers video cards and none of their user base seems even slightly concerned. And when they can't get cross-platform performance parity on heavy-duty graphics software like combustion, they blame the software vendor.
To summarise - Apple users are dumb f**ks.
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Samsung Series 9 + Novation Ultranova + Orion + killerz = anything you can imagine
stefankuhn
KVRist
 
166 posts since 8 Mar, 2004

Postby stefankuhn; Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:09 pm

BONES wrote:To summarise - Apple users are dumb f**ks.


Sure BONES. :roll:
http://www.stefan-kuhn.net
Home of Vivaldi MX and Ganymed
cavedweller
KVRer
 
3 posts since 17 Dec, 2002

Postby cavedweller; Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:45 pm

BONES wrote:To summarise - Apple users are dumb f**ks.


:lol: :lol:

Oh you make me laugh

Coming from the guy who bought a pair of ridiculously expensive designer shades he's only worn a couple of times to look "cool" onstage, I'd say you were coming close to redefining the meaning of irony there.

That is true erm...style over substance...


:lol:
Radek
KVRian
 
789 posts since 2 Sep, 2004, from Poland

Postby Radek; Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:52 pm

Apple doesn't depend on computers sales anymore and can take risks. iPods/iTunes are getting more and more profitable so changes were coming anyway. The production costs and R&D of complex CPUs are ever increasing so without very big volumes it's dead end. Most software today are done in C/C++ and ports are (usually) just recompiling away. SJobs said they have a working MacOs x86 for five years! Perhaps originally to threat IBM but it came very handy now. For the whole PPC vs x86 debate only geeks care. Typical consumer gives sh** about processors as they don't even understand what cpu is. Just add some marketing sugars (Apple is very good at this) and voila! Think about improved margins as "new Macs" won't be cheaper yet less costly to manufacture.
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
 
6423 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:04 pm

cavedweller wrote:Coming from the guy who bought a pair of ridiculously expensive designer shades he's only worn a couple of times to look "cool" onstage, I'd say you were coming close to redefining the meaning of irony there.

Its all a matter of perspective. I bought a ridiculously expensive [and heavy] keyboard stand that I've only used on stage a couple of times, to look cool, but as its all part of the performance, I see it as money well spent. I paid the absolute minimum I could to acheive my goal. If I could have got that look cheaper, I definitely would have but live performance is exactly that - not hiding behind your laptop screen and hoping no-one will notice you. We like to put on a show for those who pay good money to see us and hopefully we give punters good value for money so they don't feel like they may as well have stayed at home and listened to the CD. How you can bring that into this debate is beyond me.
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Samsung Series 9 + Novation Ultranova + Orion + killerz = anything you can imagine
jmh
KVRian
 
1427 posts since 8 Dec, 2002

Postby jmh; Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:09 pm

BONES wrote:
stefankuhn wrote:Apple users will and have always been taking the drawback of higher prices for the opportunity to work with an operating system and software they consider to be superiour over anything that is available on x86 right now.

In my industry [film/broadcast graphics/vfx], most Mac users couldn't give you a valid reason for using it if their life depended on it. They are Mac users simply because they don't know any better. Its what they used at art school in 1990 and they have never questioned it. Apple's biggest marketing advantage is their users ignorance. That's why their marketing claims are so outrageous - they know that their target market will accept it without question. The G5 is a couple of years old now and still only supports DX-optimised gamers video cards and none of their user base seems even slightly concerned. And when they can't get cross-platform performance parity on heavy-duty graphics software like combustion, they blame the software vendor.


Couldn't put it better myself.

Regards,

JMH
Now available with added Inherently Suspect Justification!
neverwhere2012
KVRist
 
420 posts since 29 Apr, 2004, from grand rapids, michigan

Postby neverwhere2012; Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:26 pm

BONES wrote:
stefankuhn wrote:Apple users will and have always been taking the drawback of higher prices for the opportunity to work with an operating system and software they consider to be superiour over anything that is available on x86 right now.

In my industry [film/broadcast graphics/vfx], most Mac users couldn't give you a valid reason for using it if their life depended on it. They are Mac users simply because they don't know any better. Its what they used at art school in 1990 and they have never questioned it. Apple's biggest marketing advantage is their users ignorance. That's why their marketing claims are so outrageous - they know that their target market will accept it without question. The G5 is a couple of years old now and still only supports DX-optimised gamers video cards and none of their user base seems even slightly concerned. And when they can't get cross-platform performance parity on heavy-duty graphics software like combustion, they blame the software vendor.
To summarise - Apple users are dumb f**ks.


funny, i work on windows computers all day at work and on 2 macs running OSX at home. i'm well aware of the reason i use a mac. reliability of hardware, quality of the OS and software i need to get things done only being available for OSX (Logic). in fact, being forced to work on PC's for my job makes me love my macs and OSX even more. my main computer at home is a G4 tower that's about 5-6 years old. i've since upgraded the CPU on it (do that on a gateway/HP/VAIO that's 5-6 years old) and it still runs rock solid. i see a PC that's the same age as my my G4 come in to my work for repair and i cringe. i'm gonna hold my tongue about everything i dislike about windows as opposed to OSX because i don't want to start a flame war, but i'd like you to know i'm NOT a dumb f**k and i'm well aware of why i use a mac -- not just because that's what i used in school.
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
 
6423 posts since 13 Jun, 2001, from Somewhere else, on principle

Postby BONES; Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:40 pm

Yes you are, you're proving my point by using a computer that's 5 or 6 years old - clearly you don't give a rat's arse about performance, you just want to use something that's comfortable. And if I wanted to upgrade my 6 year old IBM NetVista I can still get PIII CPU's for it, I just don't know why I would bother. As for quality, where do you think all the components come from? We all use the same RAM, HDD, PCI cards, USB, FireWire, etc, etc. Th eonly difference is that the user can choose which brands to put in his PC, a Mac user has to take what Apple gives him. And yes, its the same with IBM or HP or Dell but as a PC user I don't buy from those f**kers if I can avoid it - ye olde NetVista being an obvious exception.
I use PC and Mac almost equally at work these days and I don't find any difference in terms of reliability or usability, just in terms of flat-out performance, let alone bang-for-buck. Given a choice I will always go for the computer with nVidia Quadro graphics and that means I will never choose a Mac.
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Samsung Series 9 + Novation Ultranova + Orion + killerz = anything you can imagine
egbert
KVRAF
 
3521 posts since 20 Oct, 2001, from my bolthole in the south pacific

Postby egbert; Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:50 pm

floyd wrote:This whole thing is sort of humourous, considering Apple's marketing stand on the G5. "Supercomputer in a box!" "Destroys any Intel processor!" followed by graph after misleading graph.

Steve Jobs is now like, "We need a faster processor". No shit Steve! Everyone who was able to look past the marketing has known that for 10 years - since the beginning of the PowerPC transition!


While I agree that Steve's pants have had a tendency to be on fire when he's been touting his wares, at the beginning of the Power PC transition the early chips did perform very well.

If you were around to see the early VST stuff in Cubase, the Mac versions were streets ahead at first - at least in part due to the extra grunt of the early 601s compared with the 486s from Intel.

The rest of this is simple economics - the combined development budget of the x86 players - NVidia, Intel, AMD, VIA etc - is enormous. Resistance was futile. Apple has been assimilated.

Having been ass-imolated previously Jobs must've decided it wasn't so bad ;-)
Alan
KVRian
 
945 posts since 14 Dec, 2000, from NY,NY,USA

Postby Alan; Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:15 pm

egbert wrote:Steve's pants have had a tendency to be on fire when he's been touting his wares
:D :hihi: :lol: Classic!
"Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal." - Albert Einstein
machinesworking
KVRian
 
838 posts since 15 Aug, 2003, from seattle

Postby machinesworking; Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:24 pm

BONES wrote:To summarise - Apple users are dumb f**ks.
God I love this. OK I'm also into Industrial Bones. Let's see? Hocico use an 867mhz mac, VNV use mac, Coil, Front 242, Chris and Cozy, Assemblage 23 all use macs.

Skinny Puppy run both from what I know.

Atari Teenage Riot, Allied Vision, and Suicide Commando all use Ataris.

Are all of these groups dumb f**ks for not running this years fastest PC with Windoz?

Personally I'm happy that Apple will use Intel machines, and that's great that you like roll your own PC's , but it makes no sense to say the kind of things you do about macs, it's just stupid.
machinesworking
KVRian
 
838 posts since 15 Aug, 2003, from seattle

Postby machinesworking; Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:47 pm

egbert wrote:If you were around to see the early VST stuff in Cubase, the Mac versions were streets ahead at first - at least in part due to the extra grunt of the early 601s compared with the 486s from Intel.

The rest of this is simple economics - the combined development budget of the x86 players - NVidia, Intel, AMD, VIA etc - is enormous. Resistance was futile. Apple has been assimilated.

I for one, welcome our new Intel overlords!
User avatar
aMUSEd
KVRAF
 
19904 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:56 pm

So apart from the OS what will be the difference between a Mac and a PC? If they remake Logic and OSX to run on Intel systems what's to stop people installing them on their PC's?
User avatar
whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
 
21400 posts since 3 Sep, 2001, from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Postby whyterabbyt; Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:01 am

stefankuhn quoth

Wait a second. I think you are making wrong assumptions here. PowerPC != Mac Computer and Pentium != PC.


Its not an assumption Im making, hence the quotes. But it is an assumption a helluva lot of people do make. An Intel or AMD based system gets called a 'Windows PC'. Ive had peole tell me their system was 'a Microsoft' fer chrissake.

I'm sure you're well aware of all this, but don't expect Apple to allow dual-boot systems with windows on any Intel hardware not manufactured by Apple. MacOS X will never be available for DELL or self-built PCs.

I never said anything about dual-booting.

You need to look at it from this angle: It's just the same Mac, it will look the same and it will run the same software and behave the same. The fact whether it runs on Intel or PPC processor will never be of notice for the user. And never be of interest.

At least that is the idea.


Thats the idea, but remember Apple spent years trying to pursuade its audience that it did make a difference. So were they lying, or just plain wrong? ;)
Try and remember, Im not talking about my reaction, Im talking about how a mass of Mac users are likely to react.

I'm also kinda curious that Appple have jumped in not that long after Intel have admitted that they are having speed scaling issues.

And considering the noise a G5 with all its fans on makes, I really wonder who'll want an Apple with a pair of dual-core Pentiums in their recording studio.... ;)
To laymen, software development is something akin to wizardry. Neither time, nor effort are involved. If software is missing features they want, or has bugs, it is solely because someone has been too lazy to wave their magic wand.
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