Great Idea.....How About A KVR Dev. Sample Slicer Contest

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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KVRAF
9434 posts since 16 Dec, 2002

Post Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:52 pm

dude, you just dont give up do you...seen you over at the Abeleton forum on the same topic....several times.

Will someone give stale bread a slicer just to shut him up ;)

have you not tried out ConcreteFX Dicer, supports a lot of the features mentioned here !!
Amazon: why not use an alternative

PTV
KVRAF
2201 posts since 5 Jan, 2006

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:21 am

MadPsyance wrote:Since you're on the subject...anyone have a favorite free slicer...I think mines arcDev.H4xx0r simply cause it's got multiple outs(4 stereo pairs)..none of the other free ones I could find have that.
On a similar note..anyone have a favorite vst slicer free or not?
For "traditional" slicing - Haxx0r
But my fave is Choc's BreakGarbage :love:

KVRAF
12839 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:47 am

What I still want is my "drum machine on stereoids".
In a nutshell:
- Drum sampler like Battery 3.
- Slicing like ReCycle, both for the slicing algorhythm and the editor sizing.
- MIDI file support like GURU.
- "Beam slices to sampler". Could be similar to GURU, but more flexible.
- Along similar lines: Drag and drop of slices to any place, like Phatmatik.
- Pattern editor like GURU.
- Previewing like Stylus, and give me the chaos mode as well.
- Multilane slicing and editing like LiveSlice.
- Previewing of MIDI files, kits, samples supported loop formats (REX, Acid, Apple Loops, internal) in song sync. GURU pretty much hits the nail on the head already.
- Granular slicing for more advanced synth-alike stuff.
- Direct re-ordering of slices, without any need to enter whatever piano roll edit.
- Direct replacement of slices.

300 € minimum from me for anybody building such a thing. I'm soooo sick of permanent application/plugin switching.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

KVRist
401 posts since 4 May, 2004

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:59 am

Add multiple drumsynthesis algos to that and more drag&drop interchange and it's a killer
Obviously a computer still can’t throw a television out of a hotel window or get drunk and be sick on the carpet, so there is little danger of them replacing drummers for some while yet. -- Nick Mason

KVRAF
4154 posts since 7 Sep, 2001 from Melbourne, Australia

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:13 am

Sounds great Sascha.

Regards
Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.

KVRAF
5681 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:21 am

I don't really understand beat slicers. By the time I've gotten something usable out of a loop, I would have already programmed the beat.

How do you guys use the slicers, and how do they improve your music? Obviously not a flame, an honest question as I don't really "get" this slicer thing.

KVRian
938 posts since 16 Nov, 2006 from Amsterdam

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:22 am

Sascha Franck wrote:300 € minimum from me for anybody building such a thing. I'm soooo sick of permanent application/plugin switching.
Devine Machine and Guru and RMX prove that this should be a reasonable price for this type of plugin...
<put your signature here>

KVRAF
12839 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:30 am

peejunk wrote:Add multiple drumsynthesis algos to that and more drag&drop interchange and it's a killer
Yeah, no problems with that at all ;)

Seriously, I started a "super drum machine wanted" thread almost ages ago already here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... sc&start=0
And while the responses have been merely positive, nothing even remotely similar is available to this date.
What we have is either concentrating on the sampler/rompler side of things (BFD, XLN ADrums, Battery, Stylus etc etc) or just implementing one of the things properly (Phatmatik, ReCycle, LiveSlice, MicroDicer).
GURU to me is the best step into the proper direction, but it certainly doesn't win any awards on the slicer side og things at all and programming realistic drums isn't any of its fortes either.
Then, Battery 3 is a kickass drum sampler (the best there is for now, if you ask me), but no slicing on its own at all (why oh why?).
Etc etc, blah blah... in the end, they're all lacking of some stuff more or less strongly.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

KVRian
1414 posts since 29 Feb, 2004

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:30 am

.jon wrote:I don't really understand beat slicers. By the time I've gotten something usable out of a loop, I would have already programmed the beat.

How do you guys use the slicers, and how do they improve your music? Obviously not a flame, an honest question as I don't really "get" this slicer thing.
----I'd say buy better loops if you have to mess with them that much to get them how you want them.
----Beat slicers are many things to many people. Some things you can do with them include, take individual drum hits out, rearrange beats, add effects to just certain hits within the beat, save tons of time making subtle beat variations for a track, and the list goes on. Ultimately, they don't do anything you couldn't do by hand, but they are a workflow/timesaver device.

Jeff

KVRian
938 posts since 16 Nov, 2006 from Amsterdam

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:37 am

.jon wrote:I don't really understand beat slicers. By the time I've gotten something usable out of a loop, I would have already programmed the beat.

How do you guys use the slicers, and how do they improve your music? Obviously not a flame, an honest question as I don't really "get" this slicer thing.
1) Just using the loop 'as is', a beat slicer puts the loop at the right speed/BPM, without pitch transforming. A good reason for this would be to use betamonkey drum loops when you want to focus on guitar and vocals in a rock song;

2) slice and process the slices, then put the loop together again, with the same groove. e.g. use Liveslice, put a compressor + overdrive on the kick on output 1, a flanger on the hats on output 2, etc.;

3) Create several loops from one loop, by using only the kick parts for loop one, kick + snare for loop 2, etc;

4) Change the groove but keep the sounds (because they sound good). e.g. Devine Machine has 100's of presets for this;

5) Do the same or comparable things on non-drum loops, e.g. pads, vocals, etc.
<put your signature here>

KVRAF
5681 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:47 am

liars&ashes wrote:----I'd say buy better loops if you have to mess with them that much to get them how you want them.

----Beat slicers are many things to many people. Some things you can do with them include, take individual drum hits out, rearrange beats, add effects to just certain hits within the beat, save tons of time making subtle beat variations for a track, and the list goes on. Ultimately, they don't do anything you couldn't do by hand, but they are a workflow/timesaver device.

Jeff
Hmmm maybe I'm just more used to working with midi and a multi-out drum machine... all those things are part of the basic workflow and I can't see how adding a beatslicer would improve that at all :-/
1) Just using the loop 'as is', a beat slicer puts the loop at the right speed/BPM, without pitch transforming. A good reason for this would be to use betamonkey drum loops when you want to focus on guitar and vocals in a rock song;
Ok I'm probably in the wrong genre here -sorry guys, please carry on :oops:

KVRian
938 posts since 16 Nov, 2006 from Amsterdam

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:53 am

.jon wrote:Hmmm maybe I'm just more used to working with midi and a multi-out drum machine... all those things are part of the basic workflow and I can't see how adding a beatslicer would improve that at all :-/
I spent most of my musical efforts the last few months working with and understanding loop-based production and remixing :). (That doesn't mean that I can execute, but intellectually I more or less understand what it's about, which I didn't do a year ago).
<put your signature here>

KVRAF
12839 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:08 am

.jon, you can use slicers for all sorts of stuff. Just having your standard Amen break available all the time surely isn't the main purpose for me.
I often throw entire tracks into the sampler of my choice, then use portions of them to be triggered via MIDI. Slicers only add to that experience.

And even with premade loops, there's so much a slicer can do that your own drum programming can't (at least not in a reasonable amount of time), such as capturing the drummers feel, such as using the sound of whatever loop.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

KVRAF
5681 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:23 am

I think I see the problem now - slicers aid (seemingly a lot) with loop-based production? Well I don't use premade loops. I do have a handful of hi-quality rock / jazz drum loops for testing dynamics plugins, but using loops is like "composing" with MIDI files from the internet. The only drummer who's feel I want to capture would be... me.

I've been trying h4xx0r (sp?) and the eXT Sampler on renders of my own rythm tracks, but everything I come would have been faster and cleaner in the piano roll - or 99% of time it's just easier to play the variations and press rec.

KVRAF
12839 posts since 14 Nov, 2000 from Hannover / Germany

Post Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:32 am

.jon wrote: but using loops is like "composing" with MIDI files from the internet.
Sorry, but *aarrrgh*.

We can't all be drummers. We can't all know about the secrets of drum programming. We can't all know about the secrets of drum mixing.
That's when loops come into the game. And that's as well when slicers do an incredible job to allow for some programming freedom without being able to program things from the scratch.
Besides, as said, there's a whole lot more to slicers.

And btw, this is coming from someone being able to program a more or less decent beat from the scratch more or less well.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

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