The most underestimated synths...

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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chaosWyrM
KVRAF
1678 posts since 29 Apr, 2010 from NYC

Post Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:33 pm

wagtunes wrote:
The problem with your entire post, and this WHOLE thread for that matter is simple...

IT'S JUST YOUR OPINION.

Who says Harold and Maude is a superior movie? Did somebody die and leave you as movie critique god?

You like Harold and Maude. Fine. Doesn't mean it's a great movie. Doesn't mean it's not a great movie.

People who try to apply subjective opinion to objective fact drive me totally bonkers.

Objective Fact: Donald Trump is the current President of the US.

Subjective Opinion: Harold and Maude is a great movie.

If you can't see the difference between fact and opinion then I have no hope for this thread ever having any meaning whatsoever.

Of course, it doesn't.

And the irony is, that's JUST my opinion.

Now do you understand?
i do not understand...because you are wrong. its not subjective. while one can talk about why they like or dislike a work...there are quantitative aspects that help determine if its good or not. if that were not the case...we wouldnt have things like doctorates in art or music theory classes. you CAN teach someone to make good art. if it was purely subjective...you wouldn't be able to do that.

but that is waaaay off topic....sufice to say we have a 20+ page thread here of people who understand that something can be underrated...regardless of fluffys assertion that all things are rated accurately.

so ill be done with this.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
13251 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:37 pm

chaosWyrM wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
The problem with your entire post, and this WHOLE thread for that matter is simple...

IT'S JUST YOUR OPINION.

Who says Harold and Maude is a superior movie? Did somebody die and leave you as movie critique god?

You like Harold and Maude. Fine. Doesn't mean it's a great movie. Doesn't mean it's not a great movie.

People who try to apply subjective opinion to objective fact drive me totally bonkers.

Objective Fact: Donald Trump is the current President of the US.

Subjective Opinion: Harold and Maude is a great movie.

If you can't see the difference between fact and opinion then I have no hope for this thread ever having any meaning whatsoever.

Of course, it doesn't.

And the irony is, that's JUST my opinion.

Now do you understand?
i do not understand...because you are wrong. its not subjective. while one can talk about why they like or dislike a work...there are quantitative aspects that help determine if its good or not. if that were not the case...we wouldnt have things like doctorates in art or music theory classes. you CAN teach someone to make good art. if it was purely subjective...you wouldn't be able to do that.

but that is waaaay off topic....sufice to say we have a 20+ page thread here of people who understand that something can be underrated...regardless of fluffys assertion that all things are rated accurately.

so ill be done with this.
Well, you heard it here first folks. I'm wrong. Harold and Maude is a great movie. It's a fact.

The pomposity of some people here baffles even my "seen it all" existence.

You can't make this shit up.

User avatar
chaosWyrM
KVRAF
1678 posts since 29 Apr, 2010 from NYC

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:42 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
chaosWyrM wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:
It's like with movies. Some people love a certain movie and can't understand why most other people don't love it. Or the other way round.
still misunderstanding the term "underrated".

its not about people loving it or not...its about perceived quality.

but lets investigate your movie analogy.

people all over the world LOVE frozen. i mean its immensely popular...kids love it, adults love it...its got insane amounts of merchandising attached to it...it makes millions upon millions in royalties and other monies every year.

that doesnt mean its any good. in fact its a pretty terrible movie, with horrible voice acting/singing a not very nice but very immature simple plot, and mediocre at best animation.

now lets take an entirely different movie...how about harold and maude...that film is a wonderful movie, with great writing, superb acting, and a funny and interesting plot. now according to your logic....frozen is a better film because it appeals to more people and is far far more popular. but the reality is that harold and maude is the VASTLY superior film...in all the qualities that actually make up what a film is.

the perceived quality of harold and maude (not just in comparison to frozen mind you) is much lower than its actual quality. its a very VERY good film that most people wont even watch because they THINK its not very good...its underrated.
This analogy is horrible. First off, in Frozen, a little girl tells a painting of Joan of Arc to "hang in there!" That alone gives it huge points in my opinion. WTF? :lol: But seriously, you're actually comparing a movie crafted for little kids with Harold and Maude? Why not Apocalypse Now? Try showing either of those to a 4 year old. The first will put them to sleep or cause them to wander off, the second will traumatize them for life. Why not compare my 4 year old's cat keyboard to my Prophet 6? To my daughter, the cat keyboard is a way better product in every way. The keys are spaced perfectly for her tiny hands, there are cute sounds and beats she can play to. She likes messing around in my studio too, but the thing she goes for almost every time is the Tenori-On. A synth/sequencer designed by a game designer. To her, it's the best thing in my studio.

Frozen actually is a great looking film. I don't get the criticism of the animation. The plot, while simple, nicely deviates from the "princess waiting for the prince to complete her" formula. The day isn't saved by a guy. I don't really like most musical music, but I have to admit that the score and songs in that film are pretty damn good, for the most part. We listen to the score on the way home from daycare and it's an excellent way to get a child into classical music.

Now, Harold and Maude, sure it explores some complicated and nuanced subjects in the life of two adults, but it's purpose is profoundly different, as is it's intended audience. But it never made me orgasm, as other films have, so that means it's worse than porn right? Porn must be the best movie making ever because of the intenses response it creates in the viewer. How's that for logic?
i think maybe you dont understand how analogies work. its not meant to be a 1:1 comparison....its not really a comparison at all, as you claim it is.

but thank you for proving my point for me. by one set of metrics frozen is the better movie...by another set of metrics harold and maude is the better movie.

as i mentioned before...this is way off topic...say what you will...im done with this.
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wagtunes
KVRAF
13251 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:13 pm

How do I stop certain people from sending me PMs? If I just add them as a foe, will that do it?

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jacqueslacouth
KVRian
843 posts since 18 Nov, 2004

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:44 pm

zerocrossing wrote:Why not compare my 4 year old's cat keyboard to my Prophet 6? To my daughter, the cat keyboard is a way better product in every way. The keys are spaced perfectly for her tiny hands, there are cute sounds and beats she can play to. She likes messing around in my studio too, but the thing she goes for almost every time is the Tenori-On. A synth/sequencer designed by a game designer. To her, it's the best thing in my studio.
You bought your 4 year old a Cat....seriously...coolest Dad EVER!!!! :love:

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Michael L
KVRAF
2357 posts since 25 Jan, 2014 from the End of the World as we Knowit

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:35 pm

wagtunes wrote:How do I stop certain people from sending me PMs? If I just add them as a foe, will that do it?
Hmm. If kvr can do that, perhaps there's also a button to block your nasty posts: a Wagenheim Notch Filter that surgically cuts every post when you are in your Gooch Zone*


*http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... =wagenheim

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13251 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:19 am

Michael L wrote:
wagtunes wrote:How do I stop certain people from sending me PMs? If I just add them as a foe, will that do it?
Hmm. If kvr can do that, perhaps there's also a button to block your nasty posts: a Wagenheim Notch Filter that surgically cuts every post when you are in your Gooch Zone*


*http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... =wagenheim
There is an ignore feature Michael. You're free to use it.

Honestly, I don't know why more people don't. I've got at least a half dozen members here on ignore.

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do_androids_dream
KVRAF
2769 posts since 26 Oct, 2007 from Kent, UK

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:10 am

chaosWyrM wrote:
i do not understand...because you are wrong. its not subjective. while one can talk about why they like or dislike a work...there are quantitative aspects that help determine if its good or not. if that were not the case...we wouldnt have things like doctorates in art or music theory classes. you CAN teach someone to make good art. if it was purely subjective...you wouldn't be able to do that.
I must point out - having a doctorate still has nothing to do with being 'not subjective'. It entitles you to be a recognised authority - to have a respected 'opinion' - not objective fact making. There is no such thing as teaching someone to 'make good art'.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
13251 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:19 am

do_androids_dream wrote:
chaosWyrM wrote:
i do not understand...because you are wrong. its not subjective. while one can talk about why they like or dislike a work...there are quantitative aspects that help determine if its good or not. if that were not the case...we wouldnt have things like doctorates in art or music theory classes. you CAN teach someone to make good art. if it was purely subjective...you wouldn't be able to do that.
I must point out - having a doctorate still has nothing to do with being 'not subjective'. It entitles you to be a recognised authority - to have a respected 'opinion' - not objective fact making. There is no such thing as teaching someone to 'make good art'.
Let me also point out that you can't teach somebody to make good art if they have absolutely no talent for it.

You can send me to all the drawing classes in the world for 50 years and I'll still never be able to draw anything but stick figures.

Can we rename KVR the pompous ass forum?

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do_androids_dream
KVRAF
2769 posts since 26 Oct, 2007 from Kent, UK

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:24 am

wagtunes wrote:
You can send me to all the drawing classes in the world for 50 years and I'll still never be able to draw anything but stick figures.
But if someone really likes those stick figures they will think it's 'good' art ;)

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sfd
KVRian
1110 posts since 14 Jul, 2013

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:36 am

chaosWyrM wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
The problem with your entire post, and this WHOLE thread for that matter is simple...

IT'S JUST YOUR OPINION.

Who says Harold and Maude is a superior movie? Did somebody die and leave you as movie critique god?

You like Harold and Maude. Fine. Doesn't mean it's a great movie. Doesn't mean it's not a great movie.

People who try to apply subjective opinion to objective fact drive me totally bonkers.

Objective Fact: Donald Trump is the current President of the US.

Subjective Opinion: Harold and Maude is a great movie.

If you can't see the difference between fact and opinion then I have no hope for this thread ever having any meaning whatsoever.

Of course, it doesn't.

And the irony is, that's JUST my opinion.

Now do you understand?
i do not understand...because you are wrong. its not subjective. while one can talk about why they like or dislike a work...there are quantitative aspects that help determine if its good or not. if that were not the case...we wouldnt have things like doctorates in art or music theory classes. you CAN teach someone to make good art. if it was purely subjective...you wouldn't be able to do that.

but that is waaaay off topic....sufice to say we have a 20+ page thread here of people who understand that something can be underrated...regardless of fluffys assertion that all things are rated accurately.

so ill be done with this.

Quality is a matter of what properties you're personaly after. And what purposes you want them to serve.

In my opinion the moive Avengers is of highter techincal quality then Charles Chaplin's City Lights from 1931. But the content of the plot is way better in the later film.

u-he's Diva have some techincal qualites ( properties to serve a given purpose) you can't find in an old Minimoog. But in my opinion a Minimoog have qualites I don't find in any other synth. Hardware or software.

To judge you've to determine what you're after. rRight colors, a plot that moves you, a stable or unstable table, a fat and wamr sound or a user friendly preset manager. Or maybe all of that in one package.

And in the case of the later you would still need to add an aspect of your perosnal choise in order to separate one from the other.
You can listen to my music HERE and here on YouTube and on Spotify

User avatar
mcnoone
KVRAF
5987 posts since 9 Oct, 2007 from an inharmonious society

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:37 am

U-he Hive synth is the most misunderestimated synth of all.
It is the greatest synth in the universe, yet people are still referring to it only as the greatest synth on earth. Totally misunderestimated.
(btw...misunderestimated did become a word in 2003 under executive order #237GW)

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mcnoone
KVRAF
5987 posts since 9 Oct, 2007 from an inharmonious society

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:39 am

sfd wrote: But in my opinion a Minimoog have qualites I don't find in any other synth. Hardware or software.
A mystical mysterious force of course.

EnGee
KVRAF
4764 posts since 7 Oct, 2005 from New Zealand

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:59 am

wagtunes wrote:
Let me also point out that you can't teach somebody to make good art if they have absolutely no talent for it.

You can send me to all the drawing classes in the world for 50 years and I'll still never be able to draw anything but stick figures.
God gives talents according to his judgement. For example, God didn't give you a talent in drawing, but he gave you a talent in music. It is not about being hard working of course, because that leads to nothing if God didn't give you the green light "Talent".

Oh, and there are no underrated synths (or things). There are only overrated synths. This is a fact of course not opinion.

[Time to unsubscribe from this thread :hihi: ]
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wagtunes
KVRAF
13251 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The most underestimated synths...

Post Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:01 am

EnGee wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Let me also point out that you can't teach somebody to make good art if they have absolutely no talent for it.

You can send me to all the drawing classes in the world for 50 years and I'll still never be able to draw anything but stick figures.
God gives talents according to his judgement. For example, God didn't give you a talent in drawing, but he gave you a talent in music. It is not about being hard working of course, because that leads to nothing if God didn't give you the green light "Talent".

Oh, and there are no underrated synths (or things). There are only overrated synths. This is a fact of course not opinion.

[Time to unsubscribe from this thread :hihi: ]
My friend, it was time to unsubscribe from this ridiculous train wreck when it first started. People are trying to state personal opinion as fact and it's just plain silly.

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