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chaosWyrM
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1668 posts since 28 Apr, 2010, from NYC

Postby chaosWyrM; Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:33 pm Re: The most underestimated synths...

wagtunes wrote:
The problem with your entire post, and this WHOLE thread for that matter is simple...

IT'S JUST YOUR OPINION.

Who says Harold and Maude is a superior movie? Did somebody die and leave you as movie critique god?

You like Harold and Maude. Fine. Doesn't mean it's a great movie. Doesn't mean it's not a great movie.

People who try to apply subjective opinion to objective fact drive me totally bonkers.

Objective Fact: Donald Trump is the current President of the US.

Subjective Opinion: Harold and Maude is a great movie.

If you can't see the difference between fact and opinion then I have no hope for this thread ever having any meaning whatsoever.

Of course, it doesn't.

And the irony is, that's JUST my opinion.

Now do you understand?


i do not understand...because you are wrong. its not subjective. while one can talk about why they like or dislike a work...there are quantitative aspects that help determine if its good or not. if that were not the case...we wouldnt have things like doctorates in art or music theory classes. you CAN teach someone to make good art. if it was purely subjective...you wouldn't be able to do that.

but that is waaaay off topic....sufice to say we have a 20+ page thread here of people who understand that something can be underrated...regardless of fluffys assertion that all things are rated accurately.

so ill be done with this.
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wagtunes
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12616 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:37 pm Re: The most underestimated synths...

chaosWyrM wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
The problem with your entire post, and this WHOLE thread for that matter is simple...

IT'S JUST YOUR OPINION.

Who says Harold and Maude is a superior movie? Did somebody die and leave you as movie critique god?

You like Harold and Maude. Fine. Doesn't mean it's a great movie. Doesn't mean it's not a great movie.

People who try to apply subjective opinion to objective fact drive me totally bonkers.

Objective Fact: Donald Trump is the current President of the US.

Subjective Opinion: Harold and Maude is a great movie.

If you can't see the difference between fact and opinion then I have no hope for this thread ever having any meaning whatsoever.

Of course, it doesn't.

And the irony is, that's JUST my opinion.

Now do you understand?


i do not understand...because you are wrong. its not subjective. while one can talk about why they like or dislike a work...there are quantitative aspects that help determine if its good or not. if that were not the case...we wouldnt have things like doctorates in art or music theory classes. you CAN teach someone to make good art. if it was purely subjective...you wouldn't be able to do that.

but that is waaaay off topic....sufice to say we have a 20+ page thread here of people who understand that something can be underrated...regardless of fluffys assertion that all things are rated accurately.

so ill be done with this.


Well, you heard it here first folks. I'm wrong. Harold and Maude is a great movie. It's a fact.

The pomposity of some people here baffles even my "seen it all" existence.

You can't make this shit up.
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chaosWyrM
KVRAF
 
1668 posts since 28 Apr, 2010, from NYC

Postby chaosWyrM; Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:42 pm Re: The most underestimated synths...

zerocrossing wrote:
chaosWyrM wrote:
fluffy_little_something wrote:
It's like with movies. Some people love a certain movie and can't understand why most other people don't love it. Or the other way round.


still misunderstanding the term "underrated".

its not about people loving it or not...its about perceived quality.

but lets investigate your movie analogy.

people all over the world LOVE frozen. i mean its immensely popular...kids love it, adults love it...its got insane amounts of merchandising attached to it...it makes millions upon millions in royalties and other monies every year.

that doesnt mean its any good. in fact its a pretty terrible movie, with horrible voice acting/singing a not very nice but very immature simple plot, and mediocre at best animation.

now lets take an entirely different movie...how about harold and maude...that film is a wonderful movie, with great writing, superb acting, and a funny and interesting plot. now according to your logic....frozen is a better film because it appeals to more people and is far far more popular. but the reality is that harold and maude is the VASTLY superior film...in all the qualities that actually make up what a film is.

the perceived quality of harold and maude (not just in comparison to frozen mind you) is much lower than its actual quality. its a very VERY good film that most people wont even watch because they THINK its not very good...its underrated.


This analogy is horrible. First off, in Frozen, a little girl tells a painting of Joan of Arc to "hang in there!" That alone gives it huge points in my opinion. WTF? :lol: But seriously, you're actually comparing a movie crafted for little kids with Harold and Maude? Why not Apocalypse Now? Try showing either of those to a 4 year old. The first will put them to sleep or cause them to wander off, the second will traumatize them for life. Why not compare my 4 year old's cat keyboard to my Prophet 6? To my daughter, the cat keyboard is a way better product in every way. The keys are spaced perfectly for her tiny hands, there are cute sounds and beats she can play to. She likes messing around in my studio too, but the thing she goes for almost every time is the Tenori-On. A synth/sequencer designed by a game designer. To her, it's the best thing in my studio.

Frozen actually is a great looking film. I don't get the criticism of the animation. The plot, while simple, nicely deviates from the "princess waiting for the prince to complete her" formula. The day isn't saved by a guy. I don't really like most musical music, but I have to admit that the score and songs in that film are pretty damn good, for the most part. We listen to the score on the way home from daycare and it's an excellent way to get a child into classical music.

Now, Harold and Maude, sure it explores some complicated and nuanced subjects in the life of two adults, but it's purpose is profoundly different, as is it's intended audience. But it never made me orgasm, as other films have, so that means it's worse than porn right? Porn must be the best movie making ever because of the intenses response it creates in the viewer. How's that for logic?


i think maybe you dont understand how analogies work. its not meant to be a 1:1 comparison....its not really a comparison at all, as you claim it is.

but thank you for proving my point for me. by one set of metrics frozen is the better movie...by another set of metrics harold and maude is the better movie.

as i mentioned before...this is way off topic...say what you will...im done with this.
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wagtunes
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12616 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:13 pm Re: The most underestimated synths...

How do I stop certain people from sending me PMs? If I just add them as a foe, will that do it?
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jacqueslacouth
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804 posts since 17 Nov, 2004

Postby jacqueslacouth; Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:44 pm Re: The most underestimated synths...

zerocrossing wrote:Why not compare my 4 year old's cat keyboard to my Prophet 6? To my daughter, the cat keyboard is a way better product in every way. The keys are spaced perfectly for her tiny hands, there are cute sounds and beats she can play to. She likes messing around in my studio too, but the thing she goes for almost every time is the Tenori-On. A synth/sequencer designed by a game designer. To her, it's the best thing in my studio.



You bought your 4 year old a Cat....seriously...coolest Dad EVER!!!! :love:

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Michael L
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2311 posts since 25 Jan, 2014, from the End of the World as we Knowit

Postby Michael L; Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:35 pm Re: The most underestimated synths...

wagtunes wrote:How do I stop certain people from sending me PMs? If I just add them as a foe, will that do it?
Hmm. If kvr can do that, perhaps there's also a button to block your nasty posts: a Wagenheim Notch Filter that surgically cuts every post when you are in your Gooch Zone*


*http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wagenheim
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wagtunes
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12616 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:19 am Re: The most underestimated synths...

Michael L wrote:
wagtunes wrote:How do I stop certain people from sending me PMs? If I just add them as a foe, will that do it?
Hmm. If kvr can do that, perhaps there's also a button to block your nasty posts: a Wagenheim Notch Filter that surgically cuts every post when you are in your Gooch Zone*


*http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wagenheim


There is an ignore feature Michael. You're free to use it.

Honestly, I don't know why more people don't. I've got at least a half dozen members here on ignore.
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do_androids_dream
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2755 posts since 26 Oct, 2007, from Kent, UK

Postby do_androids_dream; Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:10 am Re: The most underestimated synths...

chaosWyrM wrote:
i do not understand...because you are wrong. its not subjective. while one can talk about why they like or dislike a work...there are quantitative aspects that help determine if its good or not. if that were not the case...we wouldnt have things like doctorates in art or music theory classes. you CAN teach someone to make good art. if it was purely subjective...you wouldn't be able to do that.


I must point out - having a doctorate still has nothing to do with being 'not subjective'. It entitles you to be a recognised authority - to have a respected 'opinion' - not objective fact making. There is no such thing as teaching someone to 'make good art'.
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wagtunes
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12616 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:19 am Re: The most underestimated synths...

do_androids_dream wrote:
chaosWyrM wrote:
i do not understand...because you are wrong. its not subjective. while one can talk about why they like or dislike a work...there are quantitative aspects that help determine if its good or not. if that were not the case...we wouldnt have things like doctorates in art or music theory classes. you CAN teach someone to make good art. if it was purely subjective...you wouldn't be able to do that.


I must point out - having a doctorate still has nothing to do with being 'not subjective'. It entitles you to be a recognised authority - to have a respected 'opinion' - not objective fact making. There is no such thing as teaching someone to 'make good art'.


Let me also point out that you can't teach somebody to make good art if they have absolutely no talent for it.

You can send me to all the drawing classes in the world for 50 years and I'll still never be able to draw anything but stick figures.

Can we rename KVR the pompous ass forum?
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do_androids_dream
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2755 posts since 26 Oct, 2007, from Kent, UK

Postby do_androids_dream; Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:24 am Re: The most underestimated synths...

wagtunes wrote:
You can send me to all the drawing classes in the world for 50 years and I'll still never be able to draw anything but stick figures.



But if someone really likes those stick figures they will think it's 'good' art ;)
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sfd
KVRian
 
1094 posts since 14 Jul, 2013

Postby sfd; Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:36 am Re: The most underestimated synths...

chaosWyrM wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
The problem with your entire post, and this WHOLE thread for that matter is simple...

IT'S JUST YOUR OPINION.

Who says Harold and Maude is a superior movie? Did somebody die and leave you as movie critique god?

You like Harold and Maude. Fine. Doesn't mean it's a great movie. Doesn't mean it's not a great movie.

People who try to apply subjective opinion to objective fact drive me totally bonkers.

Objective Fact: Donald Trump is the current President of the US.

Subjective Opinion: Harold and Maude is a great movie.

If you can't see the difference between fact and opinion then I have no hope for this thread ever having any meaning whatsoever.

Of course, it doesn't.

And the irony is, that's JUST my opinion.

Now do you understand?


i do not understand...because you are wrong. its not subjective. while one can talk about why they like or dislike a work...there are quantitative aspects that help determine if its good or not. if that were not the case...we wouldnt have things like doctorates in art or music theory classes. you CAN teach someone to make good art. if it was purely subjective...you wouldn't be able to do that.

but that is waaaay off topic....sufice to say we have a 20+ page thread here of people who understand that something can be underrated...regardless of fluffys assertion that all things are rated accurately.

so ill be done with this.



Quality is a matter of what properties you're personaly after. And what purposes you want them to serve.

In my opinion the moive Avengers is of highter techincal quality then Charles Chaplin's City Lights from 1931. But the content of the plot is way better in the later film.

u-he's Diva have some techincal qualites ( properties to serve a given purpose) you can't find in an old Minimoog. But in my opinion a Minimoog have qualites I don't find in any other synth. Hardware or software.

To judge you've to determine what you're after. rRight colors, a plot that moves you, a stable or unstable table, a fat and wamr sound or a user friendly preset manager. Or maybe all of that in one package.

And in the case of the later you would still need to add an aspect of your perosnal choise in order to separate one from the other.
You can listen to my music HERE and here on YouTube and on Spotify
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mcnoone
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6050 posts since 8 Oct, 2007, from an inharmonious society

Postby mcnoone; Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:37 am Re: The most underestimated synths...

U-he Hive synth is the most misunderestimated synth of all.
It is the greatest synth in the universe, yet people are still referring to it only as the greatest synth on earth. Totally misunderestimated.
(btw...misunderestimated did become a word in 2003 under executive order #237GW)
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mcnoone
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6050 posts since 8 Oct, 2007, from an inharmonious society

Postby mcnoone; Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:39 am Re: The most underestimated synths...

sfd wrote: But in my opinion a Minimoog have qualites I don't find in any other synth. Hardware or software.

A mystical mysterious force of course.
EnGee
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4721 posts since 7 Oct, 2005

Postby EnGee; Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:59 am Re: The most underestimated synths...

wagtunes wrote:
Let me also point out that you can't teach somebody to make good art if they have absolutely no talent for it.

You can send me to all the drawing classes in the world for 50 years and I'll still never be able to draw anything but stick figures.


God gives talents according to his judgement. For example, God didn't give you a talent in drawing, but he gave you a talent in music. It is not about being hard working of course, because that leads to nothing if God didn't give you the green light "Talent".

Oh, and there are no underrated synths (or things). There are only overrated synths. This is a fact of course not opinion.

[Time to unsubscribe from this thread :hihi: ]
My lovely setup: Windows 10, Reason 10, Cubase 9.5, Reaper 5, AudioBox iTwo, Casio PX-5S, Korg microKey 37 & 2 x nanoKontrol2 and a bunch of great soft synths and instruments :)
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wagtunes
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12616 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Postby wagtunes; Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:01 am Re: The most underestimated synths...

EnGee wrote:
wagtunes wrote:
Let me also point out that you can't teach somebody to make good art if they have absolutely no talent for it.

You can send me to all the drawing classes in the world for 50 years and I'll still never be able to draw anything but stick figures.


God gives talents according to his judgement. For example, God didn't give you a talent in drawing, but he gave you a talent in music. It is not about being hard working of course, because that leads to nothing if God didn't give you the green light "Talent".

Oh, and there are no underrated synths (or things). There are only overrated synths. This is a fact of course not opinion.

[Time to unsubscribe from this thread :hihi: ]


My friend, it was time to unsubscribe from this ridiculous train wreck when it first started. People are trying to state personal opinion as fact and it's just plain silly.
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