One-Synth-Challenge: General discussion thread

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
KVRian
730 posts since 20 Oct, 2003 from Seattle

Post Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:24 am

I would prefer using any (free or payware) mixing and mastering plug ins- Things that make the sound better but do not change it. Tube, eq, compression, limiter, etc. doesn't change the character of a sound they should just makes it sound more finished and professional.

I want people to enjoy listening to my OSC tracks because they compare well to ANY track out there- not only based on the novelty of it being done with one synth. Payware processing effects would help that.

I LOVE the challenge of achieving this goal with the limit of one synth! OSC as I see it is both making a song and seeing what can be done with one synthesizer. It really focusses me on thoroughly learning how to program a synthesizer in a months time. It's like a college class in improving my sound design and mixing skills. That is what I value in this contest (and the great community of people too!)

KVRian
867 posts since 26 Jul, 2009

Post Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:48 am

i find this following rule debatable and it has screwed my obxd submission attempt as I created a drumkit/fx sampler template out of one shot samples of OBXD

" no more one shot sampling in the OSC:
"Sampling for example a bass drum in order to get a consistent sound is not allowed either."
[source: https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/rules]


in one shot sampling the synth I'm not modifying its sound at all. but simply selecting the "best takes".
like with a singer you select the best takes & untill u add effects it is still the raw sound of the singer. just the best bits.
and in the case of my one shot samples of OBXD it's the pure unaltered voice of the synth...it isn't modified in any way.
i just recorded what i deemed as best "performances" of the synth & i don't think it breaks the one synth challenge idea.
in any case something to consider for future OSCs...I'm not expecting a deadline day rule change...i should have taken the time to re-read all the rules first :dog: (I wasn't up to date on them..)

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KVRAF
1500 posts since 13 Sep, 2012

Post Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:58 am

olikana wrote:in one shot sampling the synth I'm not modifying its sound at all. but simply selecting the "best takes".
Actually that rule makes a lot of sense: it's fairly common to witness a weird behaviour from on OSC synth when you start layering multiple instances of the same plugin. Sometimes that leads to certain compromises, rethinking the workflow, etc. Sampling does the opposite: gets rid of all the possible imperfections/glitches, etc. Try to see it from a different angle: OSC is a lesson in itself, it forces you out of your comfort zone and pushes you into new ways of doing things and trying different techniques and learning how to overcome limitations. I know it can get frustrating at first, but in time you'll love it & appreciate it for what it is...or not :)
TELURICA - "Made In ___ [INSERT LOCATION]" - EP.
Available now on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/telurica/sets/ma ... t-location

KVRist
65 posts since 9 Jan, 2011

Post Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:18 am

I think using effects should be allowed, it's hard enough making all sounds for a track with one synth, which most of the time isn't even designed to make drum sounds for example. So in that situation layering and some eq/compression can really help the sound a lot.

And if you take away the effects it makes the challenge that much harder, mixing a track without mixing tools just seems a bit silly to me.
Whether the effects are free or commercial doesn't matter much to me, most of the time I feel it really does not sound better or worse, just different. Which is also nice because mostly I can't afford the more expensive vst's :hihi:

edit: voted

KVRAF
2647 posts since 19 Dec, 2010 from North America

Post Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:48 pm

jasinski wrote:I would prefer using any (free or payware) mixing and mastering plug ins- Things that make the sound better but do not change it. Tube, eq, compression, limiter, etc. doesn't change the character of a sound they should just makes it sound more finished and professional.

I want people to enjoy listening to my OSC tracks because they compare well to ANY track out there- not only based on the novelty of it being done with one synth. Payware processing effects would help that.

I LOVE the challenge of achieving this goal with the limit of one synth! OSC as I see it is both making a song and seeing what can be done with one synthesizer. It really focusses me on thoroughly learning how to program a synthesizer in a months time. It's like a college class in improving my sound design and mixing skills. That is what I value in this contest (and the great community of people too!)
I feel like I might change my mind on this rule and support commercial plugs. You brought up some good points. It's also strange that people can use different DAWS - some of which have vastly different effects, but not commercial. Maybe we can do a pilot month, and test out what people do with commercial effects allowed?

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3922 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Post Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:38 pm

G-Roove wrote:Awesome new EQ for OSC recommended-plugins page !

http://www.tokyodawn.net/tdr-vos-slickeq/
Absolutely! Thanks for the headsup.

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3922 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Post Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:50 pm

z.prime wrote:these synths aren't really intended to stand on their own a lot of the time. OBXD is a perfect example - if it was intended to be used completely on its own, there would be built in delay, reverb, more sound shaping, etc. But developers don't add that stuff because obviously everyone has good sounding effects already - much better than the effort to include it in a synth would be worth.
This is a very good point as there is no inherent purity of thought that synths should have no effects which is why most of the top synths have the whole kitchen sink included. Others (usually freeware) have little or no effects onboard but the idea might very well still be that the developer takes it for granted that people will want to (like with big synths) enhance the sound using 3rd party effects since they are so widely available and easy to use.
olikana wrote:i find this following rule debatable and it has screwed my obxd submission attempt as I created a drumkit/fx sampler template out of one shot samples of OBXD

" no more one shot sampling in the OSC:
"Sampling for example a bass drum in order to get a consistent sound is not allowed either."
[source: https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/rules]


in one shot sampling the synth I'm not modifying its sound at all. but simply selecting the "best takes".
like with a singer you select the best takes & untill u add effects it is still the raw sound of the singer. just the best bits.
and in the case of my one shot samples of OBXD it's the pure unaltered voice of the synth...it isn't modified in any way.
i just recorded what i deemed as best "performances" of the synth & i don't think it breaks the one synth challenge idea.
The net effect is still using the sampler to get a different sounding result. (otherwise you wouldn't use the sampler in this instance)

KVRAF
2647 posts since 19 Dec, 2010 from North America

Post Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:54 pm

z.prime wrote:these synths aren't really intended to stand on their own a lot of the time. OBXD is a perfect example - if it was intended to be used completely on its own, there would be built in delay, reverb, more sound shaping, etc. But developers don't add that stuff because obviously everyone has good sounding effects already - much better than the effort to include it in a synth would be worth.
Nicely said

KVRist
47 posts since 25 Apr, 2013

Post Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:23 am

olikana wrote:i find this following rule debatable and it has screwed my obxd submission attempt as I created a drumkit/fx sampler template out of one shot samples of OBXD

" no more one shot sampling in the OSC:
"Sampling for example a bass drum in order to get a consistent sound is not allowed either."
[source: https://sites.google.com/site/kvrosc/rules]


in one shot sampling the synth I'm not modifying its sound at all. but simply selecting the "best takes".
like with a singer you select the best takes & untill u add effects it is still the raw sound of the singer. just the best bits.)
I share this view and my wish is to use OneShotSamples, too.

Even when I cut the beginning and the end of an OneShotSample, its the raw sound of a synth and has recognition value. This is not allowed! BUT: With a compression->reverb->gate chain I am able to completely destroy the raw sound, nobody hears the original sound. And this is allowed!

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3922 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Post Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:39 am

V'ger wrote:General Rules Vote - March 2014

Following some discussion after implementing a new (tracks) voting system it might be an idea to have a deciding poll about that and the alternatives.

There have also been other suggestions that have come up since last rules vote so will include those too.

So please enter your votes HERE before 1st April (KVR time).

If you want to vote again after making a mistake or changing your mind, please do so, but include the word revote or similar after your name.
Voting over:

Rules Vote Results

As you can see, majority wants things as they are except to go back to the 1-5 points for all + make voting mandatory (disqualification if not). Rules updated accordingly.

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KVRAF
2291 posts since 18 Apr, 2001 from The Netherlands

Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:31 am

The disqualification rule is still not completely clear to me: If I may not have the time to do voting (it happens, even if some people don't understand this) and my track will be disqualified because of that, is there still any validity in actually entering a track (taking into account that I'm not in it for the prizes, even if I would get into the winning top... which is at least questionable :D).

So basically, what's the difference between being disqualified and being not eligible for prizes?
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3922 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:38 am

The 'not voted, not eligible for prizes' -rule has been deleted since being DQ means you are obviously outside the top 5 where the prizes are.

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KVRAF
2291 posts since 18 Apr, 2001 from The Netherlands

Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:52 am

V'ger wrote:The 'not voted, not eligible for prizes' -rule has been deleted since being DQ means you are obviously outside the top 5 where the prizes are.
No problem for me of course, even if I would win something I would shift my place to the next (or to put it otherwise, step out of the first five places myself).

But... it still seems to me the same as the 'no prize' rule. It would be a good idea to add some clarification to the rule as to what this 'disqualification' actually entails:

- is your track removed from the contest?
- are you bumped down from your actual spot to just below the first five (if you where there)?
- what happens if you are not in the first five anyway?
- can you still see how many votes you've got?
- etc.
CrimsonWarlock aka TechnoGremlin, using Reaper and a fine selection of freeware plugins.

Ragnarök VST-synthesizer co-creator with Full Bucket

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

3922 posts since 15 Dec, 2009

Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:01 am

You get DQ written next to the name instead of points and moved to the bottom of the list.

It's meant to hurt... ;)

(still to decide whether to show the voting details in the scoreboard or not. Probably not)

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KVRAF
1500 posts since 13 Sep, 2012

Post Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:10 am

crimsonwarlock wrote:It would be a good idea to add some clarification to the rule as to what this 'disqualification' actually entails:

- is your track removed from the contest?
- are you bumped down from your actual spot to just below the first five (if you where there)?
- what happens if you are not in the first five anyway?
- can you still see how many votes you've got?
- etc.
What "disqualification" means in general? You're out - plain and simple. As in your track gets removed from the contest and the votes for your track don't count nor would you be able to see who voted for you and all that.

I can perfectly understand that it may happen to miss a voting deadline 'cause life, but on the other hand if you don't have enough free time to dedicate to an OSC maybe you shouldn't join in the first place (talking in general)... For ex I'm a bit busy these days so I stay out until I can find the time for writing another OSC song ;) Common sense, really :)
TELURICA - "Made In ___ [INSERT LOCATION]" - EP.
Available now on Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/telurica/sets/ma ... t-location

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