SYN'X 2.5 Released - Xils-Lab - (Multitimbral Synthex - intro discount-)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Lotuzia
KVRAF
10138 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris

Post Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:57 am

Paul Barret is a rookie, he just worked with : '

' Performed on-stage, and/or in-studio with the following:

U2, Sinead O’Connor, Hazel O’Connor,Gavin Friday, Luka Bloom, HotHouse Flowers, Daniel Lanois, Brian Eno, Paul Brady, Marianne Faithful, Tom Robinson,
Christy Moore, Donal Lunny, Tim Simenon, Steve Lillywhite, Maria McKee, Carole King, Louis Stewart, The Edge, Bono, Bill Whelan.

Contributed to recordings for:

Quincy Jones, Stevie Wonder, Ray CharlesFrank Sinatra, Marvin Gaye,
Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson.

Production credits include:

U2, Hazel O’Connor, HotHouse Flowers, Luka Bloom, Carole King, Bono, Quincy Jones, Boyzone, Equation, and Co
o'

+ the tracks are awsome ( Much more than a synth demo imho ) :tu: :tu: :tu:
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Lotuzia
KVRAF
10138 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:42 am

A typical example of a patch very few VA synthesizers can produce, and that can be done rather easily on the Syn'X 2.

Syn'X 2 Saw + Random

How it works : I played the chords with the upper Keyboard, while *tapping* a simple rythm with the left hand (One lazy finger, always the same note). Chords are tempo synced, with a delay before the rythmic modulation. And the Lower Keyboard has different synth sounds playing one at a time (with the help of one of the polycircular play modes)
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Lotuzia
KVRAF
10138 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:03 am

ehehe KVR just announced today the Synx 2 has been released.

Here's a superb audio demo made by Nori Ubutaka with the sounds of the MiniWork'X soundbank for Syn'x 2 :tu:

And Synx'2 bundled with MiniWork'x can still be purchased until July 21st with a 30% discount.

Miniwork's by Nori
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Ingonator
KVRAF
12043 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:26 am

Had an experience with Syn'X today taht shows that sometimes i am a bit stupid (or simple forget some things...):
Wanted to do a nice PWM pad and for doimg that i activated the "PWM" switch in the oscillator section (for Osc 2). Then found that the PWM sounded really strange and not like it should. Then switched PWM in the Osc section off and simply added modulation of the PW in the LFO 2 section. That did the trick.
After that i found in the manual that the "PWM" switch is used for "cross modulation" which means Osc 1 modulates the Pulsewidth in Osc 2 and not just the LFO.

I did know about this in the past but somehow forgot about it, also as i did not use PWM cross-mod much yet. :oops:

Anyone else her who was confused about this feature sometimes?
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17473 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:45 am

Ingonator wrote:Had an experience with Syn'X today taht shows that sometimes i am a bit stupid (or simple forget some things...):
Wanted to do a nice PWM pad and for doimg that i activated the "PWM" switch in the oscillator section (for Osc 2). Then found that the PWM sounded really strange and not like it should. Then switched PWM in the Osc section off and simply added modulation of the PW in the LFO 2 section. That did the trick.
After that i found in the manual that the "PWM" switch is used for "cross modulation" which means Osc 1 modulates the Pulsewidth in Osc 2 and not just the LFO.

I did know about this in the past but somehow forgot about it, also as i did not use PWM cross-mod much yet. :oops:

Anyone else her who was confused about this feature sometimes?
Not so much confused as have to remind myself that if I use it, it can produce some unwanted pulsating artifacts when osc 2 is slightly detuned from osc 1.

The cross modulation feature is best used, IMO anyway, when using a simple sine wave for osc 1. saw, square and pulse can produce some very strong beating. If a smooth pad is what you're after, this is something you probably want to stay away from.

I usually use it in combination with sample and hold LFO on the VCF cutoff. Produces some really funky stuff.

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Ingonator
KVRAF
12043 posts since 21 Mar, 2008 from Hannover, Germany

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:01 am

wagtunes wrote:
Ingonator wrote:Had an experience with Syn'X today taht shows that sometimes i am a bit stupid (or simple forget some things...):
Wanted to do a nice PWM pad and for doimg that i activated the "PWM" switch in the oscillator section (for Osc 2). Then found that the PWM sounded really strange and not like it should. Then switched PWM in the Osc section off and simply added modulation of the PW in the LFO 2 section. That did the trick.
After that i found in the manual that the "PWM" switch is used for "cross modulation" which means Osc 1 modulates the Pulsewidth in Osc 2 and not just the LFO.

I did know about this in the past but somehow forgot about it, also as i did not use PWM cross-mod much yet. :oops:

Anyone else her who was confused about this feature sometimes?
Not so much confused as have to remind myself that if I use it, it can produce some unwanted pulsating artifacts when osc 2 is slightly detuned from osc 1.

The cross modulation feature is best used, IMO anyway, when using a simple sine wave for osc 1. saw, square and pulse can produce some very strong beating. If a smooth pad is what you're after, this is something you probably want to stay away from.

I usually use it in combination with sample and hold LFO on the VCF cutoff. Produces some really funky stuff.
Actually this "accident" where i just wanted to do "usual" PWM reminded me to check the PWM cross-mod feature again and see what i could do with it... :)


Ingo
Ingo Weidner
notebook: HP Omen 15.6" / Win 10 Home 64-bit / i7-7700HQ 2.8 GHz / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD (internal) // audio: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 (2nd gen)
DAWs: Live 10 Suite / Cubase Pro 9.5 // controller: Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk1

fluffy_little_something
KVRAF
12921 posts since 5 Jun, 2012

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:43 am

Looks very good, judging from the interface. And sounds good as well, judging from some of the audio examples (others are weird). Must be good for old-skool music, even Fusion etc. Polypheme reminds me a bit of an ancient Stevie Wonder synth sound from the early 70's.

xavier
KVRist
370 posts since 12 Sep, 2003

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:49 am

Hi Ingo,

I think there is a confusion which is coming from the original Synthex label :
In that synthesizer (and in the Syn'X), the PWM button is engaging the "PWM" cross modulation, which is not exactly what is usually thought about PWM (a smooth pulse width modulation for pads)

The Synthex "PWM" cross modulation is producing a pulse each time the other oscillator Sawtooth is over or below a threshold set by the Width knob.

This means that when this Width knob is set to 0.5, then there will be a lot of pulses during the first half part of the oscillator period, and none during the last part of the period. So it's producing a sound with a lot of harmonics, which can be very useful when the two oscillators are synchronized. In that case, the result can be controlled.

For more standard PWM sounds, the one you wanted to get, just use the pulse, set the Width knob, don't engage the cross modulation and, within the LFO panel, engage the PWM switch. In that case, the Width of the pulse will be modulated by the LFO, accordingly to the DepthA (DepthB is only for the filter and Level)

Best regards
Xavier

Lotuzia
KVRAF
10138 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:21 am

fluffy_little_something wrote:Looks very good, judging from the interface. And sounds good as well, judging from some of the audio examples (others are weird). Must be good for old-skool music, even Fusion etc. Polypheme reminds me a bit of an ancient Stevie Wonder synth sound from the early 70's.
Thanks. As my friend Paul, who introduced the Synthex to Stevie Wonder back in the days, told me, Stevie Wonder was extremly impressed by the Synthex, and it was used a lot, especially on stage.

I remember a recent thread on Kvr about *best emulations* where the MiniSyn'X ( The Synx 2 had not been released at that time) had a lot of good quotes.

Then, as all Xils synths, the Synx 2 offers a lot of classic patches, AND, as you mentioned, some *otherwordly*, or weird as you described them, patches. Even if these patches only represent 10/20% of the factory libraries, it's due imo to the fact that in any Xils synth, you'll find some unique features, that you can use, or not, to make patches that definitely cant be done ... with any other synth.

Classic, not so classic : The best way to decide is probably to try the demo versions of the Synx or MiniSynx, and see if it will meet your expectations ( especially because you can still get the Synx 2 with a 30% intro discount price for a couple of weeks )
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wagtunes
KVRAF
17473 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:21 am

Could use a little help trying to figure out how to do this but my years of synth programming is failing me.

I'm using ENV 3 to modulate OSC 1 frequency. Fast attack, no sustain and medium length decay to give it that quick pitch drop.

What I'd like to do is assign the mod wheel to env 3 decay in order to increase the decay time and thus exaggerate the effect.

The problem is, if you look at the destinations in the mod matrix, only env 1 and 2 are options, Env 3 and 4 can not be modulated.

So how do I pull this off?

Env 2 is the main volume env for each osc so I can't use that. I can't use the filter env because then that will affect how the filter sounds.

Am I out of luck or is there a way to do this? I'm not seeing it but maybe somebody better than me at this can point me in the right direction.

Thanks.

D N A
KVRian
1063 posts since 1 Jan, 2004

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:43 pm

There are waaay too many interesting synths available to buy :D

Lotuzia
KVRAF
10138 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:12 am

wagtunes wrote:Could use a little help trying to figure out how to do this but my years of synth programming is failing me.

I'm using ENV 3 to modulate OSC 1 frequency. Fast attack, no sustain and medium length decay to give it that quick pitch drop. What I'd like to do is assign the mod wheel to env 3 decay in order to increase the decay time and thus exaggerate the effect.

The problem is, if you look at the destinations in the mod matrix, only env 1 and 2 are options, Env 3 and 4 can not be modulated.

So how do I pull this off? Env 2 is the main volume env for each osc so I can't use that. I can't use the filter env because then that will affect how the filter sounds.

Am I out of luck or is there a way to do this? I'm not seeing it but maybe somebody better than me at this can point me in the right direction.

Thanks.
Synx 2 is extremly flexible. And this problem has an easy solution :
The general idea is to switch envelope duties/destinations. In this particular case :

1/ Assign Filter Envelope to OSC 1 pitch. Modulate EVF Decay thru mod wheel as desired.
2/ Now assign EV3 to filter ( thru mod matrix). Zero the harddwired EVF --> VCF modulation, but before note the amount value, and replicate it in the mod matrix for EV3 --> VCF modulation.
Done

What you have actually done is to switch destinations of EV1 and EV3, while taking care of the hardwired modulations ( EV1--> VCF ), and assigning the wanted modulations by writing them in the mod matrix.

LtZ
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Lotuzia
KVRAF
10138 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:14 am

D N A wrote:There are waaay too many interesting synths available to buy :D
True. But very few with the power of the Syn'X 2
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wagtunes
KVRAF
17473 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:36 am

Lotuzia wrote:
wagtunes wrote:Could use a little help trying to figure out how to do this but my years of synth programming is failing me.

I'm using ENV 3 to modulate OSC 1 frequency. Fast attack, no sustain and medium length decay to give it that quick pitch drop. What I'd like to do is assign the mod wheel to env 3 decay in order to increase the decay time and thus exaggerate the effect.

The problem is, if you look at the destinations in the mod matrix, only env 1 and 2 are options, Env 3 and 4 can not be modulated.

So how do I pull this off? Env 2 is the main volume env for each osc so I can't use that. I can't use the filter env because then that will affect how the filter sounds.

Am I out of luck or is there a way to do this? I'm not seeing it but maybe somebody better than me at this can point me in the right direction.

Thanks.
Synx 2 is extremly flexible. And this problem has an easy solution :
The general idea is to switch envelope duties/destinations. In this particular case :

1/ Assign Filter Envelope to OSC 1 pitch. Modulate EVF Decay thru mod wheel as desired.
2/ Now assign EV3 to filter ( thru mod matrix). Zero the harddwired EVF --> VCF modulation, but before note the amount value, and replicate it in the mod matrix for EV3 --> VCF modulation.
Done

What you have actually done is to switch destinations of EV1 and EV3, while taking care of the hardwired modulations ( EV1--> VCF ), and assigning the wanted modulations by writing them in the mod matrix.

LtZ
Well, I'm trying to do this but either there is a bug somewhere or I'm not understanding the instructions. Most likely the latter. So let's take this one step at a time and I'll show you each step where I am having a problem.

Step 1 - Assign filter envelope to osc freq 1. This was easy and looks like this in mod matrix if I've done it correctly.

Source = Env Filt
Dest = Osc1 Frq

I can hear the effect of the filter env on the osc. No problem.

Step 2 - Modulate EVF decay through mod wheel. This is where I run into my first problem. There is no filter decay in the destinations. So I am going to assume that this is actually Env 2, going under the assumption that Env 1 is the hard wired env to volume.

Source = ModWhee
Dest = Env2 Dec

I now move mod wheel and it does work. However, with sustain of filter envelope up, the note never gets back to its original pitch. So I have to lower it to zero. This of course now effects the filter itself, which isn't good. So I'm assuming at this point the next steps rectify this problem. These are the steps where I am confused.

Step 3 - Assign ENV 3 to Filter. Assign it to filter what? Decay? Frequency? Sustain? Which parameter? I'm going to have to assume decay since that's what we're working with. If not, you'll need to clarify which parameter.

Source = ENV 3
Dest = Env2 Dec

So far, so good if I guessed right. But I still have the problem with Filter sustain. I can't increase it above zero or pitch doesn't return to normal. So again, I am hoping the last step this.

Step 4 - Zero the harddwired EVF --> VCF modulation, but before note the amount value, and replicate it in the mod matrix for EV3 --> VCF modulation.

This is where I'm totally stumped. I have no clue what you mean? Am I setting up a 4th mod slot? If so, what is source and dest? If not, am I now assigning value to the slots already created? If so, what values?

Right now, with the way I have it set up, I can't increase the filter sustain. In fact, I've made the filter envelope totally useless as far as controlling the filter itself.

So do I need to use another envelope (maybe 4) to control the filter? I don't want to use ENV 3 because I want those settings to be different from the filter env settings.

Anyway, I tried this, using ENV 4 to control the filter (I zeroed the filter env control) and it does in fact work perfectly.

It isn't an elegant solution and it takes up 4 mod slots (unless you can find a way to cut down on them) but it works.

For what it's worth, it would be a whole lot easier if we could just modulate env's 3 and 4. LOL.

Anyway, thanks. I actually did figure this out even if maybe I didn't do it exactly as you mapped it. I am beginning to see the flexibility of this synth. However, to go really hog wild, 6 mod slots are a little tough to work with. I've now got only 2 left to do other things with this particular layer. So if I want to do LFO vibrato controlled via mod wheel, velocity sensitivity for volume and pressure control for the filter res, something has to go.

Having said all that, I am totally addicted to this synth. I don't remember the last time I had this much fun. I created one patch that would make most modular synths cry. It is really out there and I can't wait for you to hear it. Maybe I'll do a demo and post it here.

Anyway, thanks again. I was actually able to work through that even if I didn't quite get all the steps exactly right.

Lotuzia
KVRAF
10138 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris

Re: The SYN'X 2 - Xils-Lab - (Released -with intro price discount- )

Post Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:52 am

Hmmm Steven, here are more detailed steps :

1/ Assign filter EV to Osc 1
2/ Modulate DECAY of the filter envelope with Mod Wheel (using mod matrix)

This is to achieve the modulation you wanted, now performed with the filter EV instead of EV3

Now let's replace the filter EV action by EV3

3/ Assign EV 3 to filter cut off ( this is to replace the filter EV hardwired modulation on filter )( Using mod matrix)
4/ Zero the Filter EV hardwired modulation amount ( While noting the value of the ammount)
5/ Assign EV3 ---> Vcf cut off and set the ammount at the value you had previously noted for the hardwired F-EV modulation that you have nullified)
5/ Obvious but well : Set the EV3 segment parameters -dadsr- to the same values than the filter envelope to finish to duplicate precisely the filter cut off modulation by ev 3

Customise the F-EV action on osc 1 pitch :

6/ Optional : You can now customise the filter EV so that the OSC1 pitch return to an exact value after the F-EV decay stage ( Just put sustain to zero )

You have now replaced the modulation of filter envelope on filter by the same modulation applied via EV 3.

I hope its more clear this way.
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