Free FM Synthesizer Dexed (VST Windows and Mac)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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Failed Muso
KVRian
1460 posts since 18 Sep, 2004 from Suffolk, UK

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:23 am

crickey13 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:18 am
Failed Muso wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:35 am
I would love to see a 4-Op DX plugin that mimicked the TX81Z/DX11/V50 implementation because those synths were capable of some great sounds. The V50 implementation would be the best as it had double the polyphony of its forebears, and more besides.
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You may want to check out Exakt Lite by Sonicbits, it's a free 4 operator FM synth with TX waveforms. I'm not sure if it is a direct emulation of any of the aforementioned synths, but you may want to check that one out, sounds pretty nice.
Yes, I already have that. It's very close :)
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Failed Muso
KVRian
1460 posts since 18 Sep, 2004 from Suffolk, UK

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:24 am

crickey13 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:22 am
Watchful wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:02 am
I'm talking specifically about 4-operator sounds more than portamento, of course, since the DX7 did support that.
Can't you get 4-op sounds from Dexed by simply disabling two operators then using the remaining four? Or am I missing something?
That's not quite how it works because the algorithms are fixed and not identical, so turning off certain operators will not allow for the same operator routing. You can get close to one or two, but it isn't the same.
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crickey13
KVRist
63 posts since 27 Aug, 2020

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:28 am

Failed Muso wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:23 am
Yes, I already have that. It's very close :)
:tu:
Failed Muso wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:24 am
That's not quite how it works because the algorithms are fixed and not identical, so turning off certain operators will not allow for the same operator routing. You can get close to one or two, but it isn't the same.
Ah yes, okay, I forgot about algorithm differences. Haven't realized that since I tend to use all six operators on Dexed. Gotcha. Makes sense.

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asb2m10
KVRist
146 posts since 20 Dec, 2013 from Montreal

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:49 pm

planetearth wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:42 pm
Tj Shredder wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:23 am
The surge fork is MPEified. Did that change get into the main branch already?
No. The Surge fork is just that so far: a fork. It has some nice improvements and fixes, and from what some people who worked on it mentioned here a couple of weeks ago, their work might/should be folded back into what the original developer is doing with the next "official" version. But it's been more than two and a half years since the original dev updated Dexed, and there's no telling if or when he'll incorporate the "Surge fork's" changes into whatever he's working on with it...if he's even still working on it.

Steve
This is not true, please document yourself before giving those statements, it has been merge since April: https://github.com/asb2m10/dexed/pull/216
Watchful wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:02 am
This depends on what you want Dexed to be. My understanding is that the original developer wanted, specifically, an editor for DX7. That is can act as a plugin synth is a side-benefit; I believe I recall the developer being pretty insistent that the most-requested features will not be implemented as the original DX7 did not have them.

I'm talking specifically about 4-operator sounds more than portamento, of course, since the DX7 did support that.
The thing is that dexed presets are DX7 cartridges. By moving it outside (with OP4 support), you are breaking the compatibility with the DX7 and lets keep it there. TX7 and DX7II yes, they are "cart compatible".

There is so much good FM vst synth offering out there, yes dexed could be improved, but call it something else. Let's keep it at where dexed is good at: doing a DX7 for free, lean and oss (eg: it will probably work on your DAW in 10 years).

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planetearth
KVRAF
1833 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Post Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:04 pm

asb2m10 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:49 pm
planetearth wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:42 pm
Tj Shredder wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:23 am
The surge fork is MPEified. Did that change get into the main branch already?
No. The Surge fork is just that so far: a fork. It has some nice improvements and fixes, and from what some people who worked on it mentioned here a couple of weeks ago, their work might/should be folded back into what the original developer is doing with the next "official" version. But it's been more than two and a half years since the original dev updated Dexed, and there's no telling if or when he'll incorporate the "Surge fork's" changes into whatever he's working on with it...if he's even still working on it.

Steve
This is not true, please document yourself before giving those statements, it has been merge since April: https://github.com/asb2m10/dexed/pull/216
The changes that the Surge devs made were made in July (or at least, posted here on July 31). If they had already been merged back in April, I'm not sure why it was only announced at the end of July. This caused confusion at that time, too.

And I'm sorry, but like many (probably most) in this Dexed thread, I don't "read github". A a page full of
Capture.JPG
doesn't help me when all I want to do is know if a plug-in has been updated, and if so, where to find it. If that information is somewhere in that screenshot (which is the page you sent me to), I apologize. (Note: For those of you who use and enjoy github, please note that I am not complaining about github. I am simply saying that a lot of us don't engage with it and don't find it easy to use.)

When I went back to the "official" Dexed page after I read on July 31 about the updates in the fork (and how they were merged with the "production build"), all I could find there was v.0.9.4 -- which, on the face of the download zip file, is the same version number I had in March of 2018, when I was helping you troubleshoot issues with Dexed in Sonar. And v.0.9.4 is the version I downloaded again just now. That's all it says on the official page and all it says in the file name of the zip file. So honestly, anyone who didn't want to dig through pages on github would not know there is a "new" version.

And as one of the Surge devs mentioned in July,
baconpaul wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:50 am
@planetearth see above. Now that pascal has merged he has a nightly version and a release version. The surge nightly is currently between those two but that’s gonna catch up this weekend. I don’t know when there will be a formal numbered release from the nightly by the dexed team. Again we don’t plan on doing that - we aren’t maintaining a production release fork.
If the production version (v.0.9.4?) has been updated in the year and a half since I downloaded it -- or even in the last 6 months -- is there a legitimate reason the version number couldn't simply have been incremented and noted somewhere alongside the download link on the Dexed home page? Even v.0.9.4.1 as part of the file name or on the website would let a lot of people know there's a new version. The Surge devs do this, and even note when the build was released -- right there on their website. You don't have to dig through pages of gitspeak to try to find an update.

So again, if the information was in plain sight all along, I apologize. But as several posts in this thread would suggest, I'm not the only one who didn't see it.

Steve

UPDATE: Even after downloading "dexed-0.9.4-win.zip" from https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed/ again just now, I decided to open it to see what the actual executable was. It is dexed-0.9.4hf1.exe. This is the same name as the file I downloaded October 13, 2019. And that file was created/modified May 1, 2018, according to Windows.

Clipboard01.jpg

When I installed the VST2 version (there was no VST3 version in the installer I downloaded from the Dexed site tonight), it said it was created April 29, 2018. This would make it slightly newer than the final version I received from you Pascal when I was helping you troubleshoot some Dexed issues with Sonar in 2018.

Clipboard02.jpg

So as you can see, there is a LOT of confusion and inconsistency surrounding the file-naming "conventions" for the Dexed files. I sincerely appreciate all the effort that has gone into creating and maintaining this plug-in, but I also believe there is a problem with the file naming and versioning, at least as far as the main website is concerned.
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Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife.

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
20327 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:31 am

Latest nightly builds of Dexed are here: https://github.com/asb2m10/dexed/releases/tag/Nightly

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FrogsInPants
KVRist
64 posts since 4 Nov, 2019

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:34 am

planetearth wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:04 pm
If that information is somewhere in that screenshot (which is the page you sent me to), I apologize.
I don't mean to be overly critical, since github can be a bit overwhelming if you don't speak its language, but the information is on the linked page. You've clipped a bunch of technical details of file changes that indeed aren't very useful as an overview. However, above the part you clipped, you should find the headline:

headline.png

Also, I think you must have clicked the Files Changed header to get there. When I follow the link asb2m10 provided, it takes me to the discussion page for the merge request. While this does include some technical details like the list of commits, the discussion itself is pretty clear. It opens with baconpaul's pitch for the changes to be included on Apr 26, and below the list of commits you have asb2m10's response the same day:

response.png

I think this pretty clearly shows what asb2m10 stated here, that those changes were merged in April. And with some enthusiasm, I would add. That's nice to see.

Note that this doesn't necessarily mean the release build has been updated, or that the nightly builds have any visibility outside github. If the nightlies are in a usable state, perhaps they should. I wouldn't blame users for not wanting to wade through the technical details on github to find out information like this. But the short of it is that there is, in fact, a way to tell if asb2m10 is still working on Dexed, and whether the changes from the Surge team have been incorporated. You may have to wade through some of those technical details to find it, but it's there.
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surreal
KVRAF
1527 posts since 3 Dec, 2006

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:48 am

Cool

Watchful
KVRist
401 posts since 9 Jan, 2018

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:57 am

crickey13 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:22 am
Can't you get 4-op sounds from Dexed by simply disabling two operators then using the remaining four? Or am I missing something?
Sure you can, that's exactly the way to do it. But Dexed won't do that conversion for you.

viewtopic.php?t=523914 has directions (steps 2 -4) on a script that will do it for you.

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
3251 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:15 pm

Failed Muso wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:24 am
crickey13 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:22 am
Watchful wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:02 am
I'm talking specifically about 4-operator sounds more than portamento, of course, since the DX7 did support that.
Can't you get 4-op sounds from Dexed by simply disabling two operators then using the remaining four? Or am I missing something?
That's not quite how it works because the algorithms are fixed and not identical, so turning off certain operators will not allow for the same operator routing. You can get close to one or two, but it isn't the same.
Again another dude that doesn't one what he's talking about :clap:
Yes you can get all the dx 11 algos on the dx7 , al you have to do is mute the operators , this works because these operators that can be muted are modulators that don't take any input and/or are not necessary
..try harder :tu:
Algo 1 on dx11 = algo 1 on dcx 7 ( mute operator 1 and2 )
Left dx11 , right dx7
algo 2 = :algo 14 on dx7 ( mute operators 1/2)
algo 3= algo 11 ( mute operator 5)
algo 4= algo 10 ( mute operator 5)
algo 5= algo 5 ( mute operators 1,2)
algo6= algo 24 ( mute operator 1,2 )
algo 7= algo 31 ( mute operator 1, 2 )
algo 8= I will leave the last one for you , just as an exercise :tu:
Dx 7
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d11
Image
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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Failed Muso
KVRian
1460 posts since 18 Sep, 2004 from Suffolk, UK

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:59 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:15 pm

Again another dude that doesn't one what he's talking about :clap:
Yes you can get all the dx 11 algos on the dx7 , al you have to do is mute the operators , this works because these operators that can be muted are modulators that don't take any input and/or are not necessary
Again, another dude who can't be gracious on KvR :roll:

Maybe I should've been a bit more clear in my explanation. Granted, you can recreate the algorithm patterns by muting specific operators, but 4-Op patches (with the exception of DX9 patches whose Operator ident. numbers match the DX7 exactly) will not directly work on a DX7 because of the Operator ident. numbers within the algorithm. Granted again, you can convert and program each patch by hand, so sure, if that's what you want to do.

However, your example of the DX11 has 8 variable waveforms per operator, unlike the DX7 which only has sine, and so re-programming DX11 sounds into a DX7 will not yield the same results no matter how you reconfigure the operators.

So we're both right and we're both wrong but no doubt you will say otherwise...
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User avatar
gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
3251 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:36 pm

Your words :
quote
That's not quite how it works because the algorithms are fixed and not identical, so turning off certain operators will not allow for the same operator routing. You can get close to one or two, but it isn't the same.

end quote




Your literally said the dx 11 algo's could not be replicated on the dx7 .
Which is wrong , because they can , 100 %
Nobody is talking about the dx11 added waveforms .
people just don't lke it when they are proven wrong , hence the thums down :tu:
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

User avatar
Failed Muso
KVRian
1460 posts since 18 Sep, 2004 from Suffolk, UK

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:50 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:36 pm
Your words :
quote
That's not quite how it works because the algorithms are fixed and not identical, so turning off certain operators will not allow for the same operator routing. You can get close to one or two, but it isn't the same.

end quote




Your literally said the dx 11 algo's could not be replicated on the dx7 .
Which is wrong , because they can , 100 %
Nobody is talking about the dx11 added waveforms .
people just don't lke it when they are proven wrong , hence the thums down :tu:
The thumbs down was for the poor attitude. Seems I’m not alone in that regard. I’m always happy to admit when I make a mistake. Something you could learn, as well a touch of politeness.

I should’ve been more specific about the context, and I should’ve paid more attention to the question and explained myself better. The operator routing is NOT the same for the reason I explained above and so not directly compatible. The patterns are the same, but the operator positions are not. But hey, I’m not even sure why I am bothering trying to explain myself to you as it won’t make a difference to your expert opinion. Oh, and you were the one that referenced the DX11, not me.

I’m sure you feel very happy with yourself.

Enjoy that :clap: :roll:
Image

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Teksonik
KVRAF
14161 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:26 pm

I'm grateful for the 150 % GUI size but am I the only one who finds it so blurry as to be nearly unusable ? (Yes I know it's due to up-scaling the images).
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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planetearth
KVRAF
1833 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Post Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:28 pm

FrogsInPants wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:34 am
planetearth wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:04 pm
If that information is somewhere in that screenshot (which is the page you sent me to), I apologize.
I don't mean to be overly critical, since github can be a bit overwhelming if you don't speak its language, but the information is on the linked page. You've clipped a bunch of technical details of file changes that indeed aren't very useful as an overview. However, above the part you clipped, you should find the headline:

headline.png

Also, I think you must have clicked the Files Changed header to get there. When I follow the link asb2m10 provided, it takes me to the discussion page for the merge request. While this does include some technical details like the list of commits, the discussion itself is pretty clear. It opens with baconpaul's pitch for the changes to be included on Apr 26, and below the list of commits you have asb2m10's response the same day:

response.png

I think this pretty clearly shows what asb2m10 stated here, that those changes were merged in April. And with some enthusiasm, I would add. That's nice to see.

Note that this doesn't necessarily mean the release build has been updated, or that the nightly builds have any visibility outside github. If the nightlies are in a usable state, perhaps they should. I wouldn't blame users for not wanting to wade through the technical details on github to find out information like this. But the short of it is that there is, in fact, a way to tell if asb2m10 is still working on Dexed, and whether the changes from the Surge team have been incorporated. You may have to wade through some of those technical details to find it, but it's there.
Thanks for trying to help here. I don't remember clicking on anything else, and I opened the link twice, just to be sure I was in the right place. Maybe I wasn't, somehow. That said, I was already lost when I got to the github page, and I had no interest in clicking around to find out where the latest file might be. To those of us who don't speak github (and aren't interested in learning it), there is nothing obvious anywhere at the top of the page that shows where or how to get the latest version. I do now see "Merged" and "April 26" mentioned, but I don't see anything at the top of the page that tells the layperson where to find the files.
Capture.JPG
To those of you who use github regularly, I'm sure you know exactly where to go and how to find what you want. But to those of us who don't, and who simply want to get the latest version of the plug-in and go back to making music, having to "wade through technical details" seems unnecessary and kills the fun quickly.

I'm with you 100% when you say "Note that this doesn't necessarily mean the release build has been updated, or that the nightly builds have any visibility outside github. If the nightlies are in a usable state, perhaps they should." As I pointed out with the file names and version numbering scheme, it is extremely difficult to determine which version is the latest or if it has been updated -- especially if you're getting the file from https://asb2m10.github.io/dexed. And this is where I was getting the files when I was working with Pascal on some Dexed issues. I got the Surge "fork" (with the VST3 version) from github, but once we were told it had been merged, I went back to the official Dexed page to get the latest version. Why would I go anywhere else?

Again, thanks for trying to help with this. And I appreciate @EvilDragon pointing out where the nightlies are. None of this is mentioned on the official Dexed page though, unless you try to follow the "View on GitHub" link -- which takes you to yet another different github page. I -- and many others -- have been downloading Dexed from the official Dexed page, however.

Steve
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Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife.

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