The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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xh3rv
KVRAF
1617 posts since 11 Dec, 2008 from Minneapolis

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:12 pm

I believe there are a few patents on FS1R DSP, and they expire in a few years.

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Teksonik
KVRAF
13678 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:07 pm

bluedad wrote:
Teksonik wrote:into buying one. I see one is listed for $3,395 at e-bay now. That's just silly but another is a $355 but with 6 days left. Will be interesting to see what it's final selling price will be.......... :)

E-Bay silly price
I saw that the other day and thought 'holy f**k'..years back when I was in the market, I was balking at $400.
I don't think he'll get that price...... :hihi: If he does I'm putting my Ensoniq VFX up for $4,000

I'm interested in seeing where the one at $355 ends up after it's auction is over.....I'm guessing over $500. :?

EDIT: I just checked and it's gone up to $365........and I found this bit in the description:
Flat sounding pads and stunning Formant that make Loops sound stupid.
Inspires me to make a bid........ :lol:
Last edited by Teksonik on Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Teksonik
KVRAF
13678 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:09 pm

xh3rv wrote:I believe there are a few patents on FS1R DSP, and they expire in a few years.
When did the patents on the DX7 expire ?
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

ghettosynth
KVRAF
12078 posts since 13 Oct, 2009

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:06 pm

EvilDragon wrote:Well... formant synthesis as done by FS1R is a different pair of shoes. Also, FS1R has 8 voiced and 8 unvoiced operators, so it's not your usual FM box really.
Yes, in theory, but, past six operators or so, the combinatorial advantage of having all of those operators in one box diminishes. There are diminishing returns for having long complex modulation chains and most of the advantage can be attributed to layering simpler chains. For sounds that just rely on more operators, I think that two or three layered instances of FM8 will get you there. In general, I think that this is an overlooked concept that is so simple it's absurd. Just layer existing synths to get complex sounds from synths that combined technologies.

Since you have one, if you'd like to discuss some particular patches that really highlight what is special about the FS1R, I'd certainly be interested in that.

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xh3rv
KVRAF
1617 posts since 11 Dec, 2008 from Minneapolis

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:18 pm

Teksonik wrote: When did the patents on the DX7 expire ?
IIRC it's a 20-year thing, the original Chowning / Stanford patents on digital FM were late 1970s, so would've been the late 90s. (Confirmed by https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... hesis.html - 1995)

Here's a page has a list of FS1R related patents - I couldn't speak to the contents or what's really important but it looks like 5 are past the 20-year limit ('97, '97, '98, '98, '00):(http://smasher.org/fs1r/links)

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cryophonik
KVRAF
5354 posts since 7 Sep, 2006 from Elk Grove, CA

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:08 pm

I owned a FS1R for years and I'd say that Blue II is a really good software alternative. It's an FM/hybrid synthesis and, with the vocal samples, it does a very good job of getting those vocal-ly pads, etc. that the formant shaping synthesis offers. Blue II is far easier to work with, too, of course.

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Teksonik
KVRAF
13678 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:13 pm

xh3rv wrote:it looks like 5 are past the 20-year limit ('97, '97, '98, '98, '00):(http://smasher.org/fs1r/links)
But wouldn't that be 2017,2018 and 2020 ?

Can't wait that long................. :hihi:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Teksonik
KVRAF
13678 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:14 pm

cryophonik wrote:I owned a FS1R for years and I'd say that Blue II is a really good software alternative. It's an FM/hybrid synthesis and, with the vocal samples, it does a very good job of getting those vocal-ly pads, etc. that the formant shaping synthesis offers. Blue II is far easier to work with, too, of course.
I own an older version of Blue. What new features does Blue II bring to the table ?
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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cryophonik
KVRAF
5354 posts since 7 Sep, 2006 from Elk Grove, CA

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:25 pm

Teksonik wrote:
cryophonik wrote:I owned a FS1R for years and I'd say that Blue II is a really good software alternative. It's an FM/hybrid synthesis and, with the vocal samples, it does a very good job of getting those vocal-ly pads, etc. that the formant shaping synthesis offers. Blue II is far easier to work with, too, of course.
I own an older version of Blue. What new features does Blue II bring to the table ?
XY modulation, a lot more waveforms and filter types, more effects options, more modulation options, and other things that I can't think of off the top of my head.

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Teksonik
KVRAF
13678 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:38 pm

Oh great thanks now I have to upgrade................ :hihi:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

bill45
KVRAF
2469 posts since 15 Jun, 2006

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:58 pm

Didn't hollow sun or synth magic sample one.

darsho
KVRAF
1625 posts since 14 Sep, 2007 from www.koeln.de/en/

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:52 pm

If one just wants a couple of FS1R sounds, there's always the Hollow Sun Sampleset for Kontakt.
http://www.hollowsun.com/HS2/products/fs1r/index.htm
It's pretty nice, and patches are categorized well.

stimresp
KVRian
1045 posts since 1 Jul, 2008

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:32 am

One other thing about the FS1r is the huge number of voice presets - including everything from the DX7 (+cartridges I believe). There's a lot of excellent and detailed sound design in the box already - all the typical e-pianos, Brass, pads, etc.

With 4 voices in a 'performance' patch, you can layer/split 4 x DX7 patches, with filters and noise generators, and push through the lovely FX. Therefore, it's not even required to understand FM at all to get unique patches from it.

The current prices are nuts though.

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quantum7
KVRian
988 posts since 31 Dec, 2006 from the hills above beautiful Boise, Idaho

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:12 am

The Hollow Sun FS1r Kontakt library sounds very nice- highly recommended for the price. Regarding the real FS1r- Nice sounding synth, but anything over $500 for it is absolutely NUTS!!!!!

MaF
KVRist
100 posts since 22 Sep, 2002 from Germany

Re: The most closest vst to Yamaha FS1R is ....

Post Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:53 am

I have no idea which plug-in would come close to an FS1r.
Maybe it can somehow be created in Reaktor? I once started a thread about this in the NI forum.

I bought one 2nd hand for 400 € 12 years ago, because I thought this was a real synth, something to dive into to create the most unheard sounds. The sound palette and spectrum of presets were amazing. Even though I had SoundDiver and a manual I never fully understood it and finally sold it for about the same price. No regrets. But I definitely would like to have an easy-to-use software version of it.

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