KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:02 pm

Comparable software is in the same price ballpark.

I would have hoped it's 99 €, because the dev said that he thinks plugins should be priced like that, but i guess Waldorf has the last word on the price, and you'll surely pay for the brand name too. Which is fine of course.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:03 pm

Seems a reasonable price to me considering the market price for comparable synths, after all Serum is $189 and I don't see people complaining about that. Largo is even more.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:12 pm

Numanoid wrote: Nevertheless, selling Nave PC/Mac for 8 times the iOS price (it would have been 10 times had it not been for the strong dollar now), is way way way over the top.

How they can go above €75 is beyond me

This shows that you do not seem to have much knowledge about actual costs of development for plugins like this and as already mentioned Nave for PC/Mac had to be re-programmed from scratch, not with just converting existing code.
Waldorf is not a "one man show" but an actual company with some employees and everything they do in terms of development costs money for them.

Anyway in terms of pricing they also offer some upgrade paths (e.g. Waldorf Edition to PPG Wave 3.V) and from time to time also sales for their plugins (up to 30% and AFAIK sometimes more).

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:12 pm

chk071 wrote:Comparable software is in the same price ballpark. I would have hoped it's 99 €, because the dev said that he thinks plugins should be priced like that, but i guess Waldorf has the last word on the price, and you'll surely pay for the brand name too. Which is fine of course.

Well, nevertheless the ios/PC-Mac divide is a chip on my shoulder, and it will not decrease unless users voice their opinion about it

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:14 pm

Ingonator wrote:This shows that you do not seem to have much clue about actual costs of development of plugins like this and as already mentioned Nave for PC/Mac had to be re-programmed from scratch, not with just converting existing code.

If devs could post info about their accounts, earnings, salary, r&d costs (like many businesses do with their annual reports) more easily accessible than now, it would be easier to get a clue about it

UltimateOutsider · Post by **UltimateOutsider** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:20 pm

Hmm... it looks like the Attack overhaul (in the Waldorf Edition update) might address the old Attack's Achilles Heel: The cymbals. I see just a generic "Sample" button instead of the three fixed cymbal options the original had.

It might be nice to have more options to synthesize cymbals (like you can in Tremor), but still looks like an improvement.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:21 pm

Numanoid wrote:
Ingonator wrote:This shows that you do not seem to have much clue about actual costs of development of plugins like this and as already mentioned Nave for PC/Mac had to be re-programmed from scratch, not with just converting existing code.
If devs could post info about their accounts, earnings, salary, r&d costs (like many businesses do with their annual reports) more easily accessible than now, it would be easier to get a clue about it

Why would they?

Do you also feel obliged to reveal your salary, so that other people can decide whether it is justified or not?

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:23 pm

double post

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:23 pm

Numanoid wrote:
Ingonator wrote:This shows that you do not seem to have much clue about actual costs of development of plugins like this and as already mentioned Nave for PC/Mac had to be re-programmed from scratch, not with just converting existing code.
If devs could post info about their accounts, earnings, salary, r&d costs (like many businesses do with their annual reports) more easily accessible than now, it would be easier to get a clue about it

Waldorf is developing both software and hardware products (some of them like even real analog or hybrid ones) which is quite different to most other plugin developers. Developing actual hardware needs other resources than "just" typing" in some code and Waldorf usually develops circuits themselves (e.g. the analog circuits for the Pulse 2 which are based on discrete standard SMD components and not on pre-built chips ; the CPU is of course not built by themselves).

UPDATE:
Not to forget that Walodrf sels "physical" copies of both their hadware and software products in shops which is different to just handling everything online (which of course for the Waldorf plugins is an option too...).

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:24 pm

chk071 wrote:Why would they? Do you also feel obliged to reveal your salary, so that other people can decide whether it is justified or not?

Anybody in Norway can see my salary/earnings and tax paid if they want to. Those records are open quite freely, but you need to know norwegian:

http://www.skatteetaten.no/se/Person/Sk ... telistene/

Why are people in EU (and Switzerland) so afraid of showing their true worth?

To us up here in the north it is a very democratic thing to know and share such information.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:26 pm

Ingonator wrote:Waldorf is developing both software and hardware products (some of them like even real analog or hybrid ones) which is quite different to most other plugin developers. Developing actual hardware needs other resources than "just" typing" in some code and Waldorf usually develops circuits themselves (e.g. the analog circuits for the Pulse 2 which are based on discrete standard SMD components and not on pre-built chips ; the CPU is of course not built by themselves).

Well nevertheless, it would be possible for Waldorf to state how many licenses they have sold of a plugin?

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:38 pm

Numanoid wrote:
Ingonator wrote:Waldorf is developing both software and hardware products (some of them like even real analog or hybrid ones) which is quite different to most other plugin developers. Developing actual hardware needs other resources than "just" typing" in some code and Waldorf usually develops circuits themselves (e.g. the analog circuits for the Pulse 2 which are based on discrete standard SMD components and not on pre-built chips ; the CPU is of course not built by themselves).
Well nevertheless, it would be possible for Waldorf to state how many licenses they have sold of a plugin?

Not everything that is possible will be done, except if the german law would ask for this...
I am sure the tax authorities do ask for those details every year but this is different to posting this in public, at least here in Germany.

This is my final comment concernig plugin pricing as more comments do not make much sense for me anyway.

Numanoid · Post by **Numanoid** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:43 pm

My preconception is that devs use iOS to sell plugs under value to attract attention.

They get that back by overpricing the PC/Mac plugs.

Without having access to the numbers, that can't be proved wrong either.

masterhiggins · Post by **masterhiggins** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:45 pm

Numanoid wrote:Why are people in EU (and Switzerland) so afraid of showing their true worth?

Because there's always some guy that's incapable of comprehending what net worth is vs salary vs other business ventures vs debt and assume that a company with millions of dollars is sitting in a yacht sipping Brandy all day. Then they start bellyaching that the product should be cheaper because they're rich enough and blah blah blah. Very few people actually benefit from knowing this outside the company (private ones anyway). In the long run its not worth it and serves no purpose. At best it results in entitled whining and backseat managing.

mkdr · Post by **mkdr** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:48 pm

Nave for VST. Cool.

If it's even a cent over the price of the iOS version it's an automatic no buy for me.

Waldorf Music at NAMM 2015: Nave for PC/Mac, Waldorf Edition 2, Attack for iOS, nw1 Eurorack module